The Stephan trial and evidence-based healthcare

[CaptainCrunch]

I was watching the news last night and I got enraged by the stupidity of the whole thing when a family member went before the camera and made the link that this verdict was going to stress the health care system because if you don't take your kid in for every cough and sniffle the feds will come after you.

So stupid.

The poor kid had bacterial Meningitis, had been sick for two weeks.

They claim that they though he had croup (Sp?) or whooping cough I think.

But I look at the Meningitis Symptoms

headache, pain and stiffness, nausea and vomiting, disorientation, drowsiness, poor appetite, and its a good chance that the kid was having seizures.

Those symptoms are pretty specific to meningitis.

No you don't have to take your kid to the doctor for every cough and sniffle, but if your kid is sick for multiple days and has symptoms like that, common sense tells me that you should stop acting like a fricken hippie, get in your 1967 Volkswagen van and get your a$$ to a doctor. That's what this case is all about.

A couple of flakes feeding a kid who was rapidly degrading smoothies with garlic and horseradish in it, and giving him some quack medicine.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the judge needs to hammer them with the full weight of the sentence, just because its better for society to see the example of a couple of fricken idiots who basically follow voodoo medicine.

the whole naturopathy and supplements industry needs to be over hauled and regulated and these witch doctors need to take responsibility for what they sell and what they're telling people. Frankly this so called doctor should be occupying a cell right next to the parents for medical malpractice.

Hey I take supplements, mostly on the vitamin scales, and I take some fish oil stuff. But I wouldn't sit there coughing my lungs out and watching blood hit the ceiling and saying, hey some horseradish would fix me right up. At least doctor Bob will tell me that, and after that maybe I'll get my chiro to fix the damaged ligaments and masses of scar tissues and metal parts in my body, because I'm sure adjusting my spine will be the miracle that I need.

[troutman]

http://www.cmaj.ca/content/182/12/E569.full

[2010]

Right now, both homeopathy and traditional Chinese medicine remain almost entirely unregulated in Canada, as are most complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) practices.

“It’s a hodge-podge patchwork, which can be confusing for the consumer at the best of times,” says Heather Boon, founding chair and principal investigator of the Canadian Interdisciplinary Network for CAM Research.

For those skeptical of CAM, the “subtlety” of treatment begs the question: How can you set standards for something many people argue does not and cannot work?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regula...ative_medicine

The questionable ethics of selling complementary and alternative medicine

https://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpre...tive-medicine/

[aaronck]

If my daughter has dry skin or a sniffle, I try natural remedies before taking her to a dermatologist- If she is exhibiting more severe symptoms I make an Dr's appt or call the health link- there has to be a happy medium. This is a terrible situation for all involved, but was totally avoidable and the parents should totally be held responsible. The amount of people who back these people is scary- just check out the support page https://www.facebook.com/PrayersForEzekiel/

Weirdly enough, it's a lot of exposure for the family company (Ironically named) Truehope Nutritional Support Inc and the various products they tried to cure the Illness-like a shot of "total reload" (vitamin/ electrolyte booster) and they also gave him some "Blast" (that's filled with lots of homeopathics, natural antibiotics and an immune booster," the mother said). I would think this would be a business killer, but sadly the supporters will probably boost sales for them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Thank god my parents had some common sense when I was growing up. I mean my dad had the mentality of rubbing dirt on anything and getting over it. Flu's colds and all of that stuff, common sense chicken soup and sleep.

But when I had my asthma issues, they didn't mess around with it.

I hope their business falls apart and goes under, if these morons are thinking like this, what kind of advice are they giving to other people.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by peter12

How are naturopaths good at solving anything?

Money sitting in your wallet. And you still being alive.

[Itse]

Mandatory Tim Minchin quote:

"By definition,
alternative medicine has either not been proved to work,
or been proved not to work.
You know what they call alternative medicine that's been proved to work?
Medicine."

[calf]

What do you call alternative medicine that works? Actual medicine.

My son was recently diagnosed with a genetic disorder, which is treatable but not curable. There is basically one treatment for it to ensure he'll have a normal and healthy life, and it works, but will involve him getting needles every other day until new technology is developed or approved. It's the only way right now.

The common question after explaining this to my friends or co-workers seems to be "isn't there a herbal remedy for it"?

[peter12]

Well, apparently, that echinacea tincture is a cure-all. Maybe try that?

[Fuzz]

I was once told a foot cleanse would remove toxins from my liver and cure me of celiac. She was totally serious, too.

If you ever get cancer, prepare for 1001 ways to cure it through natural means. So many people think they have the answer. I get it, you want to help. This, however, is not helping.

Not all of it is totally hogwash though. I have a friend who is totally allergic to cats, and his girlfriend had one. He suffered for months, and someone told him to try taknig bee pollen. Within days he was totally fine, could handle the cat etc. He had to take it every other day, but he went for a few years like that until the cat was gone. I'm as skeptical as they come, but I don't doubt this worked for him.

So I guess it can be tricky, becuase there is some science to some of these things, but there is so much BS it's tough to know.

[CaptainCrunch]

I was looking at the website for these peoples business, and they're basically selling stuff that they claim works against Autism, Bipolar Disorders, Depression and ADHD, and its all the same drug.

I mean seriously, these are severe mental disorders with severe consequences to the person if they're not treated properly, and they're selling untested natural remedies, with huge lines like how so and so beat his bipolar disorder using this miracle drug.

They're selling alternative mood elevators and suppressors.

Like to me this is dangerous stuff.

Fine take your supplements to make up for the stuff your not getting in your diet.

But saying that you have alternative cures for mental illnesses liver misfunctions and other things is just plain fricken dangerous.

That's just plain dangerous and irresponsible to me.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by calf

What do you call alternative medicine that works? Actual medicine.

My son was recently diagnosed with a genetic disorder, which is treatable but not curable. There is basically one treatment for it to ensure he'll have a normal and healthy life, and it works, but will involve him getting needles every other day until new technology is developed or approved. It's the only way right now.

The common question after explaining this to my friends or co-workers seems to be "isn't there a herbal remedy for it"?

Have you tried kombucha?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Have you tried kombucha?

Not sure if Serious?

[Cube Inmate]

The news reports on this case are grinding my gears.

I mean, I know it's not their job (e.g. on 770) to editorialize, but sometimes I just wish they would call a spade a spade. In this case, I keep hearing "the Stephans treated Ezekiel with alternative medicines including hot peppers, garlic, and horseradish" ... to which I constantly think, that's not called alternative medicine, that's called FOOD!

Anyhow...I'm going back to treating my ulcers now. I'm taking a mix of oxygen, nitrogen, and other trace gases 4000x daily via an inhaler. My problem seems to be getting better, so I think the medicine is working.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

The news reports on this case are grinding my gears.

I mean, I know it's not their job (e.g. on 770) to editorialize, but sometimes I just wish they would call a spade a spade. In this case, I keep hearing "the Stephans treated Ezekiel with alternative medicines including hot peppers, garlic, and horseradish" ... to which I constantly think, that's not called alternative medicine, that's called FOOD!

Anyhow...I'm going back to treating my ulcers now. I'm taking a mix of oxygen, nitrogen, and other trace gases 4000x daily via an inhaler. My problem seems to be getting better, so I think the medicine is working.

I totally agree. The media has an AWFUL case of argument to moderation right now. In this case, there is no "two sides of the story".

There's just facts vs. voodoo, and no, the truth is not somewhere in the middle. Garbage reporting like you point out just makes things worse.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not sure if Serious?

I thought my posting history in this thread and on the entire site would have suggested sarcasm.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I was once told a foot cleanse would remove toxins from my liver and cure me of celiac. She was totally serious, too.

If you ever get cancer, prepare for 1001 ways to cure it through natural means. So many people think they have the answer. I get it, you want to help. This, however, is not helping.

Not all of it is totally hogwash though. I have a friend who is totally allergic to cats, and his girlfriend had one. He suffered for months, and someone told him to try taknig bee pollen. Within days he was totally fine, could handle the cat etc. He had to take it every other day, but he went for a few years like that until the cat was gone. I'm as skeptical as they come, but I don't doubt this worked for him.

So I guess it can be tricky, becuase there is some science to some of these things, but there is so much BS it's tough to know.

My father is battling Prostate and rectal cancers. The rectal cancer is fairly advanced so they are doing radiation and chemo for both at separate times. It's a long road to haul, but it's his best chance.

Fortunately, he trusts my advice and is listening to his doctors. His wife's brother is heavily invested in some doctor who is "curing" cancer with some amazing organic acid compound in Venezuela that doesn't hurt normal tissues but magically only targets cancerous tissues. It's so obviously fake to anyone with even rudimentary biology knowledge, but he seriously contemplated it. It's awful how people will make money off suffering and death.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I thought my posting history in this thread and on the entire site would have suggested sarcasm.

Sorry I forgot to take my brain medicines today while sucking back a healthy shake made of an eye of newt and the blood of a virgin grizzly bear, so I'm confused right now.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

My father is battling Prostate and rectal cancers. The rectal cancer is fairly advanced so they are doing radiation and chemo for both at separate times. It's a long road to haul, but it's his best chance.

Fortunately, he trusts my advice and is listening to his doctors. His wife's brother is heavily invested in some doctor who is "curing" cancer with some amazing organic acid compound in Venezuela that doesn't hurt normal tissues but magically only targets cancerous tissues. It's so obviously fake to anyone with even rudimentary biology knowledge, but he seriously contemplated it. It's awful how people will make money off suffering and death.

Its funny because he's taking some actually science terminology for cancer treatment and throwing his crap into the middle of it to sound legit.

I think its the concept of using a magic bullet to attack the DNA in cancer cells which leaves surrounding tissue unharmed.

So clearly this doctor read about the magic bullet, removed the DNA attacking drugs and added a mixture of grape seed and pickleted extract of pig testicle.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sorry I forgot to take my brain medicines today while sucking back a healthy shake made of an eye of newt and the blood of a virgin grizzly bear, so I'm confused right now.

There's your problem.

It's supposed to be the blood of a grizzly bear who has laid with a mate ONCE, not a virgin!

Don't you know anything about medicine?

[peter12]

A cousin who is into alternative garbage once told me that drinking your own urine had amazing restorative properties for those suffering from HIV/AIDS.