[Trade] Hudler traded to Florida for 2016 2nd + 2018 4th round picks

[IgiTang]

Ricardo brought up some interesting points. Some people agree, some people don't.

But enough with the personal attacks guys... Sometimes we all make posts that people don't agree with, but it's the usual suspects that jump all over a poster in bully, gang up mentality.

That isn't right.

If you disagree with someone's post, either substantiate an argument. If you're going to Flame the guy for a opinion adverse of your own, have the balls and brains to backup why you disagree, don't just make posts calling the guy an idiot...

Edit: re:the OP, it's too bad to see Huds in this type of situation. He's a leader who is typically liked by his team but if he doesn't fit in a top 6, he's not going to contribute a whole lot.

I can see a team taking him on at $4m but leaving him unprotected for an expansion draft.

He has to be ailing from something this year, he just hasn't been right. But then why would Florida's doctors clear him and the trade go through, if he wasn't healthy. Just perplexing.

BT did a great job in that deal, regardless.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by Bingo

yeah it was an odd post but I wonder if Hudler is about to get a pretty cold shower myself.

He's not big. He's not fast. He's not young. And he's less productive.

I think his best use is a top six, but he may not be good enough. A smart team will make him a third liner which he's not suited, with the thought that he can step up with injuries.

Really if he has a rough go for a week, maybe Calgary can bring him back for $1.5 on a 1 year deal and plug that top line spot.

I'd want to know there are no dressing room issues though.

Well, Calgary management would know that part for sure. Did we ever get any concrete evidence of this? Or was it just media wags upset that he didn't give interviews?

[dino7c]

Rentals are usually hot garbage especially ones returning 2nd or lower picks

remember with the Panthers, Rangers, Hawks were all big "winners" on deadline day?

two are out in the first round...Hawks are on the brink, they were one shot away from being eliminated


As for Hudler his days are numbered and we dont need him back here

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

What about the rest of your post, ricardo? You seem not to be mentioning that

So even a hard to agree with individual like yourself is conceding that 2 out of 3 points I made are totally accurate.

That would make the worst post on this thread Cali Panther's Fan

There isn't a single accurate statement in this entire post. Well done sir, you've out-Ricardo'd yourself.

I don't see that you have the jam to call out CPF on his incredibly stupid post.

There is the extra plus to my post I was kick started this thread with a post that started a discussion on a viable CP topic.

As to the other GMs getting wary on dealing with the Flames playoff rentals:

Bouwmeester to St. L out in round 1
Stempniak to Pitts... one of the worst forwards on Pens playoff team went from 2.5M to .9
Iginla to Pitts not bad but not the SC spark they thought they were getting. #7 in forward TOI for penguins in the playoffs basically 3rd line after 1st series.
Glencross to wsh
Hudler to Florida
Jones to the Wild

There are no examples (other than Russell) that Flames players are worth renting for the playoffs.


If I was a GM I wouldn't want to give up too much for renting Wideman for a playoff run in case he just plays better in Calgary.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So even a hard to agree with individual like yourself is conceding that 2 out of 3 points I made are totally accurate.

That would make the worst post on this thread Cali Panther's Fan

Good lord. I don't agree with you whatsoever.

I don't have the 'jam' to call out CPF because I agree with him.

This isn't some sort of competition for the 'best post'. This is a discussion.

[bax]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So even a hard to agree with individual like yourself is conceding that 2 out of 3 points I made are totally accurate.



That would make the worst post on this thread Cali Panther's Fan







I don't see that you have the jam to call out CPF on his incredibly stupid post.



There is the extra plus to my post I was kick started this thread with a post that started a discussion on a viable CP topic.



As to the other GMs getting wary on dealing with the Flames playoff rentals:



Bouwmeester to St. L out in round 1

Stempniak to Pitts... one of the worst forwards on Pens playoff team went from 2.5M to .9

Iginla to Pitts not bad but not the SC spark they thought they were getting. #7 in forward TOI for penguins in the playoffs basically 3rd line after 1st series.

Glencross to wsh

Hudler to Florida

Jones to the Wild



There are no examples (other than Russell) that Flames players are worth renting for the playoffs.





If I was a GM I wouldn't want to give up too much for renting Wideman for a playoff run in case he just plays better in Calgary.

This is the silly point in your original post. GM's do not evaluate players based on what teams they play on. Teams employ scouts to form specific opinions on players. Each scenario you listed is completely different . There is no chance a GM will decide he's not going to do business with Calgary based upon how Glencross or Hudler or Russell performed in the playoffs during past years. That is simply ridiculous.

It appears even more ridiculous when you hang an entire series loss on one rental player. The points you made about Hudler are fine. Some will agree, some won't. It's the conclusion that you draw from them that is so ridiculous.

Ladd to Chicago?
Morrow to the Pens?
Boedker to the Avs?
Staal to the Rangers?

See why your reasoning is so silly?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Going to be a tough UFA group for him as well.

For guys in the similar age range that need contracts:

Hudler
Staal
Vrbata
Ruutu
Purcell
Parenteau
Versteeg
Stempniak

Then you have a group of guys that had better years, are younger, or are better all-round players:

Okposo
Eriksson
Lucic
Nielsen
Boedker
Ladd
Backes
Brouwer
Perron
McGinn

With a flat cap, and many teams already struggling with some bad contracts it may be difficult for him to get a deal. Honestly a 1 year deal may be smart for him - especially with an expansion draft next year and some teams potentially needing to fill out a roster after that.

I wonder if this opens the door for a Hudler-Flames reunion? The team needs multiple top 6 wingers. Considering the Flames are tight against the cap and Hudler might struggle getting a deal something could work out for both sides

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So even a hard to agree with individual like yourself is conceding that 2 out of 3 points I made are totally accurate.

That would make the worst post on this thread Cali Panther's Fan



I don't see that you have the jam to call out CPF on his incredibly stupid post.

There is the extra plus to my post I was kick started this thread with a post that started a discussion on a viable CP topic.

As to the other GMs getting wary on dealing with the Flames playoff rentals:

Bouwmeester to St. L out in round 1
Stempniak to Pitts... one of the worst forwards on Pens playoff team went from 2.5M to .9
Iginla to Pitts not bad but not the SC spark they thought they were getting. #7 in forward TOI for penguins in the playoffs basically 3rd line after 1st series.
Glencross to wsh
Hudler to Florida
Jones to the Wild

There are no examples (other than Russell) that Flames players are worth renting for the playoffs.


If I was a GM I wouldn't want to give up too much for renting Wideman for a playoff run in case he just plays better in Calgary.

Good lord, go through the list of deadline deals. Basically none of them have made a meaningful impact in the playoffs. If none of the Flames players are worth renting, then none of any team's players are worth renting. That is actually a defensible position. Isolating Flames players is not.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by MattyC

What's your assessment of Hudler, Cali? As someone who has watched him both at his peak last year, and on both teams this season, I'm interested in your comments.

He's a solid complementary offensive player. Probably good enough for the 2nd line, but as others have pointed out he's slowing down a little with his footspeed, although that could be an injury that hasn't fully healed. He wasn't going to get top 6 duty on the Panthers because the wingers were Huberdeau, Jagr, Jokinen, and Smith. Look at their numbers and style of play, and there's little room for Hudler to supplant any of them, but he was insurance just in case any of them went down with injury.

He had 11 points in 19 games down the stretch for Florida, in mostly 3rd line minutes. That's someone that won't have much problem getting a contract, just depends on the makeup of a team. Honestly wouldn't surprise me if a team like New Jersey or Vancouver signed him to add some secondary scoring.

He is what he is, a remarkably consistent depth scorer who had a ridiculous career year last season (which we all knew he wasn't likely to repeat). It doesn't mean he's done just because he went back to what he was before that season.

[albertGQ]

What Ricardo says isn't crazy. We all say that the Oilers over value their players and not to trade with the Leafs anymore because the players we get back are never as good as they were on the Leafs.

What if other teams think the same thing about the Flames? Is is probable? not likely. Is it impossible? I'd say no

[IgiTang]

Well said AGQ.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

What Ricardo says isn't crazy. We all say that the Oilers over value their players and not to trade with the Leafs anymore because the players we get back are never as good as they were on the Leafs.

What if other teams think the same thing about the Flames? Is is probable? not likely. Is it impossible? I'd say no

When some say Oilers over value their players, there is evidence to back that claim: no "bold" moves, in spite of glaring weaknesses and overall lack of balance with that team. A reasonable conclusion is the Oilers are overvaluing. Teams aren't trading with the Oilers, because Ryan Smith was traded years ago and the Isles didn't win a playoff series.
As for the leaf example, it is crazy to suggest to not trade with a team, just because prior deals weren't very good. That is on Flames management, not on something magically wrong with Leafs players.

[Bingo]

Plus isn't he saying that the players have more value in Calgary and when they leave they suck so people won't trade for them anymore?

That's a little different than an organization over valuing it's players.

If Florida said 2nd and a 4th for Hudler and Treliving said "hell no, 2 first rounders or no deal" then yeah, over valuing.

If Hudler does well in Calgary but then not in Florida and because of that people don't trust Calgary's player any more? That's not the same thing.

[Hackey]

All I know is Treliving got great value for Hudler and Russell. To think we could have ended up with a Vrbata and Hamhuis situation. I'm not really concerned that GM's are going to worry about aquiring Flames but maybe more so careful when dealing with Treliving because he seems to be on the winning sides of most of these trades.

[868904]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So even a hard to agree with individual like yourself is conceding that 2 out of 3 points I made are totally accurate.

That would make the worst post on this thread Cali Panther's Fan



I don't see that you have the jam to call out CPF on his incredibly stupid post.

There is the extra plus to my post I was kick started this thread with a post that started a discussion on a viable CP topic.

As to the other GMs getting wary on dealing with the Flames playoff rentals:

Bouwmeester to St. L out in round 1
Stempniak to Pitts... one of the worst forwards on Pens playoff team went from 2.5M to .9
Iginla to Pitts not bad but not the SC spark they thought they were getting. #7 in forward TOI for penguins in the playoffs basically 3rd line after 1st series.
Glencross to wsh
Hudler to Florida
Jones to the Wild

There are no examples (other than Russell) that Flames players are worth renting for the playoffs.


If I was a GM I wouldn't want to give up too much for renting Wideman for a playoff run in case he just plays better in Calgary.

I don't know why you would isolate this as a "Flames" issue. I would imagine that most deadline pick ups don't work out. How can you draw the conclusion that the problem is with "Flames players"?

Buyers generally know what they are getting at the deadline and the costs are inflated, that's a given. The outcomes really don't matter, because it is about the market at the deadline. Just because player x from team y doesn't work out, doesn't mean that team y is tainted for the future.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Plus isn't he saying that the players have more value in Calgary and when they leave they suck so people won't trade for them anymore?

That's a little different than an organization over valuing it's players.

If Florida said 2nd and a 4th for Hudler and Treliving said "hell no, 2 first rounders or no deal" then yeah, over valuing.

If Hudler does well in Calgary but then not in Florida and because of that people don't trust Calgary's player any more? That's not the same thing.

This is it for me, exactly. In essence its almost the idea that Treliving is too good for a GM at deals; so no one is going to trade because well afterwards all our traded players go wherever and suck.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

This is it for me, exactly. In essence its almost the idea that Treliving is too good for a GM at deals; so no one is going to trade because well afterwards all our traded players go wherever and suck.

But at the end of the day that is 100% on the players. Its not like Treliving and Hartley are magically making them look better than they are.

If you're buying ageing depth rentals then you've got to take the ride.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Thank goodness Russell is meeting or exceeding expectations or the other GMs might start devaluing Flames UFA rentals.

List of pending UFAs that don't succeed within the playoffs is extremely long.

It's always a risk.....

Yet teams will always add and or over-pay.....

Will teams stop acquiring Flames pending UFAs... not a chance.

[automaton 3]

These players are scouted thoroughly all year long...there should be no secrets about what teams are getting.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Yeah Ricardo, the Blues were so disappointed in the Bouwmeester trade that they signed him to a 5 year contract extension. Makes perfect sense.