Teachers work "really hard'.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I'm pretty sure the only degree all teachers have is a b.ed. It doesn't matter what your other degrees are. To teacher here you need a teaching degree which I'm pretty sure includes course work in math, science and humanities as well as whatever subject matter you choose to teach. The heavily prized degrees are no more valuable when it comes to the skills required to teach the most basic subject matter. Nor do they include a guarantee of being well rounded.

Just for reference, in the states, generally if you are teaching primary school k-5 you get an education degree and if you are teaching junior high or high school you get a degree in the field you plan to teach (math, science, english, etc) and part of the course load is the teaching specific coursework from the education department.

When I was in college, I was going to become a teacher. That was about the time no child left behind came out and I was amazed by the b.s. paperwork and testing that was with it, so I dropped my education certification and just received my plain old math degree.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I know a lot of teachers and many of them took a degree prior to their B.Ed. Some have Math degrees, some English degrees, some Science degrees. I also know a fella that has a number of "tickets" prior to getting his B.Ed.

I don't know the specific course curriculum to obtain a B.Ed., but I do know that many teachers do have degrees other than B.Ed.

I don't know if its everywhere, but at the University of Lethbridge its a combined degree program so you get two degrees after 5 years. I think U of C was 6 years for two degrees and that's why you see that so frequently.

[Weitz]

So how does the survey work for the high school teachers that teach 2 classes a day but get paid full rate?

I have friends who teach high school that can do all their planning and marking during the school day and works out to working 8 hours or less a day.

I would like to see the questions asked and if hours were assumed based on questions answered.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I'm pretty sure the only degree all teachers have is a b.ed. It doesn't matter what your other degrees are. To teacher here you need a teaching degree which I'm pretty sure includes course work in math, science and humanities as well as whatever subject matter you choose to teach. The heavily prized degrees are no more valuable when it comes to the skills required to teach the most basic subject matter. Nor do they include a guarantee of being well rounded.

I fairly certain you have to have a bachelors degree in anything to then take the two-year program for teaching certification. The only exception I know of this is the specialized "Bachelor Of Music Education" which is a five-year program to train band teachers. Else someone with a regular bachelor of music performance, composition, or history would need to take the two-year teaching certification.

[jeffh]

My buddy is originally a Journeyman Cabinetmaker, but got tired of the factory-like work and pursued teaching. He took the 2-year teaching certification up in Edmonton. Now, he teaches high school shop for CBE. Subsequently, the Principal has him teaching 'dumb/practical'-math, robotics(club) and some new engineering type class.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I fairly certain you have to have a bachelors degree in anything to then take the two-year program for teaching certification. The only exception I know of this is the specialized "Bachelor Of Music Education" which is a five-year program to train band teachers. Else someone with a regular bachelor of music performance, composition, or history would need to take the two-year teaching certification.

No. It's just a b.ed. About half is subject matter.

[HHW]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

No. It's just a b.ed. About half is subject matter.

Actually, yes.

Nowadays, teachers entering the profession with straight B.Ed. degrees are rare. Most earn their B.Ed. as a two-year after degree.

Pay is based on # of years of post secondary. There are still some older teachers with 4 or even 3 year degrees, but six years post secondary / 2 degrees is the norm.

[HHW]

I teach. I also worked for a decade in software development and 25+ years with the CF (reserves). There are challenges and benefits to each, but I can guarantee that six hours of teaching is more exhausting than eight hours at the office.

[Swarly]

and 2 hours of construction can be more tiring than 8 hours at the office or 6 hours of teaching, its a meaningless comparison. All depends on the type of person you are and what type of work suits you best

[HHW]

Originally Posted by Swarly

and 2 hours of construction can be more tiring than 8 hours at the office or 6 hours of teaching, its a meaningless comparison. All depends on the type of person you are and what type of work suits you best

I suppose if you've never taught it may be meaningless to you. I've worked construction as well, and I agree that you can't compare that with a job that isn't physically intensive. However, for anyone to broadly state that 48 hours isn't that much because many professionals works longer hours is equally invalid. Teaching is hard yards because you are on 100% of the time, and as others have noted, there is an emotional investment as well.

And I am not here saying woe is me, as some in the ATA unfortunately do imply. I love my work, and the hours are compensated for in the long run

Just wanted to point out that many of the opinions in this thread about what it is that teachers do come with a lack of any actual experience (dare I say ignorance) of what the work actually entails.

[jayswin]

Teaching's like the Alberta Oilsands of professions.

[Locke]

I dont get the hate on for teachers, as some have said before its a profession that has its unique challenges and benefits, my biggest issue with it at this point stems from the fact that the system that they operate within not only sells out the front-line staff but is completely unsustainable but is just as completely unwilling to change or adapt in any way.

And thats not on the teachers exclusively, its on a lot of people, politicians and administration included. It has to change.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Swarly

and 2 hours of construction can be more tiring than 8 hours at the office or 6 hours of teaching, its a meaningless comparison. All depends on the type of person you are and what type of work suits you best

Or any job where you deal with messed up or angry people all day. Social workers and health professionals involved in worker's compensation, for example, have suicide and hostage-taking protocols at the office. They're routinely cursed at and abused by their clients. And yet they work eight hours a day, five days a week, for 48 weeks a year.

There's nothing unique about the stress of teaching. If it weren't for the fact there are 40,000 teachers in Alberta, it would be just another stressful yet anonymous job nobody gives much thought to.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Or any job where you deal with messed up or angry people all day. Social workers and health professionals involved in worker's compensation, for example, have suicide and hostage-taking protocols at the office. They're routinely cursed at and abused by their clients. And yet they work eight hours a day, five days a week, for 48 weeks a year.

911 operators work 12 hour shifts, 2 days, 2 nights.

[CliffFletcher]

Then there are nurses, dealing with injured, sick, miserable, stressed-out patients and their families every shift. A shockingly large number of nurses are assaulted by patients. Remarkably, they manage to work 8-hour days, including evenings and stat holidays, and they don't need an 8 week break to recover from the 'unique' stress.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Then there are nurses, dealing with injured, sick, miserable, stressed-out patients and their families every shift. A shockingly large number of nurses are assaulted by patients. Remarkably, they manage to work 8-hour days, including evenings and stat holidays, and they don't need an 8 week break to recover from the 'unique' stress.

My wife is a nurse and has been physically assaulted, verbally assaulted many times, and like many health care professionals, has to focus hard every day not to make a serious mistake and kill someone.

And they work 12 hour shifts

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Then there are nurses, dealing with injured, sick, miserable, stressed-out patients and their families every shift. A shockingly large number of nurses are assaulted by patients. Remarkably, they manage to work 8-hour days, including evenings and stat holidays, and they don't need an 8 week break to recover from the 'unique' stress.

Let me get this straight -- people other than teachers have difficult jobs? I had no idea!

I bet we'd talk about it more if people who don't know anything about being a nurse/social worker/911 operator bitched about how lazy and entitled they are all the time. But it just wouldn't make sense to do that.

As for the eight week break, that's just sort of how we run the world. It's not so teachers can go on vacation. It's so everyone can.

On the other hand, sending kids to school for ~49 weeks a year so teachers only get three weeks like the rest of us would really show them who's boss, but I think there might be other consequences of that.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Let me get this straight -- people other than teachers have difficult jobs? I had no idea!

Tell that to all the people who post in these threads remarking that teachers have a uniquely difficult job.

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

As for the eight week break, that's just sort of how we run the world. It's not so teachers can go on vacation. It's so everyone can.

On the other hand, sending kids to school for ~49 weeks a year so teachers only get three weeks like the rest of us would really show them who's boss, but I think there might be other consequences of that.

It's sort of how we run education in North America. The rest of the world does not take an 8 week break from school in the summer, and students are typically in school many more days than North American students. And studies are clear that the 8-week break (and the low number of instructional days) is detrimental to the academic progress of students.

The Underworked American (student)

...American children have it easier than most other children in the world, including the supposedly lazy Europeans. They have one of the shortest school years anywhere, a mere 180 days compared with an average of 195 for OECD countries and more than 200 for East Asian countries. German children spend 20 more days in school than American ones, and South Koreans over a month more. Over 12 years, a 15-day deficit means American children lose out on 180 days of school, equivalent to an entire year.

American children also have one of the shortest school days, six-and-a-half hours, adding up to 32 hours a week. By contrast, the school week is 37 hours in Luxembourg, 44 in Belgium, 53 in Denmark and 60 in Sweden.

- The Economist

No doubt part of that is just a cultural expectation in North America about kids having the whole summer off. But it's naive to think the fact Canada and the USA have the strongest teachers' unions in the world doesn't play a part. It would be interesting to have a public debate on the merits of year-round schooling, or increasing the length of the school day. Of course, the stance of teachers unions ensure we wouldn't even get to square one.

Anyone who informs themselves about the hours teachers work and how they're compensated in the rest of the world, and persists in the belief that the way things are done in Canada are in the interests of anyone but the teachers, is delusional.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Tell that to all the people who post in these threads remarking that teachers have a uniquely difficult job.



It's sort of how we run education in North America. The rest of the world does not take an 8 week break from school in the summer, and students are typically in school many more days than North American students. And studies are clear that the 8-week break (and the low number of instructional days) is detrimental to the academic progress of students.

The Underworked American (student)



No doubt part of that is just a cultural expectation in North America about kids having the whole summer off. But it's naive to think the fact Canada and the USA have the strongest teachers' unions in the world doesn't play a part. It would be interesting to have a public debate on the merits of year-round schooling, or increasing the length of the school day. Of course, the stance of teachers unions ensure we wouldn't even get to square one.

Anyone who informs themselves about the hours teachers work and how they're compensated in the rest of the world, and persists in the belief that the way things are done in Canada are in the interests of anyone but the teachers, is delusional.

The 10 month school year was instituted long before any teacher's union existed and was at least partially designed to accommodate kids who lived (and worked) on farms. I don't think we can pin it on them.

And I don't think the teacher's union is quite so powerful that they can stop us, society as a whole, from changing the school calendar. They may (or may not) be too powerful, but they don't control everything.

Anyway, is there any reason you can think of why we might not put children as young as five in school for 49 weeks a year? Any reason at all? Because if you can, it just might poke a hole in that "in the interests of anyone but the teachers" theory.

[Locke]

Recently discovered photo of a teacher's union meeting: