My point then would be Chris Pronger shouldn't be getting paid top dollars on the team in those early years. Flames are overpaying Hamilton.
Dude, the contract system has changed since then. Players are UFA at 27 now, younger if they started early. Get over it, he isn't overpaid, it's good value for a good player with strong upside coming off his ELC.
You're just going to have to deal with it.
The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to MrMastodonFarm For This Useful Post:
Most any player will need some time, and up to a year to get themselves settled when they sign a long term contract with dollars regardless of what age they are when they sign the deal.
I actually would expect Monahan and or Gaudreau could face the same challenge. But once they overcome it, you have 6-7 more years of these guy's prime years where it won't be an issue.
__________________ "Some guys like old balls"
Patriots QB Tom Brady
Most large contracts tend to be for UFAs and typically end up looking not as good in the latter years as they did in the first few years of the contract.
Conversely, with a young defenseman like Hamilton, the contract is going to look worst in the first years of the deal, but get progressively more attractive as he reaches his potential.
Pretty straight-forward.
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Enoch Root For This Useful Post:
Not to mention, if you're getting top 4 minutes on one of the worst teams for GA in the league, you're almost guaranteed to end up with a minus. -14 on a team that was collectively -29 isn't awful.
I really don't think Hamilton's contract looks bad at all right now, much less for the future.
Well typically because a top pairing Dman is on the ice for almost half the game. When that happens the ice time skews the stats.
also, not to belabor the point, Hillier had the worst save percentage in the NHL at .879...That's one of the worst sv% in the last 20 years in the NHL. Ramo was only marginally better at 36th with a .909
that's save percentage, not GAA (where the flames also finished a league worst btw)...
you could have Doughty back there and his +/- would look awful based on the way our goalies played this year.
Someone explain to me why +/- makes for a bad argument?
+/- favours defensemen who are:
1) Killing penalties and on the ice for shorties for (you get a +)
2) Placed on the ice predominantly in the offensive zone
3) Placed on the ice with forward lines who control the play below the hashmarks, allowing for offensive zone line changes
4) Placed on the ice against forward lines who lack finish
5) Placed on the ice with forward lines who finish well
6) Playing in front of a goalie making saves
7) Playing against a goalie letting in soft goals
+/- punishes defensemen who are:
8) On the power play and on the ice for shorties against (you get a -)
9) Placed on the ice predominantly in the defensive zone
10) Placed on the ice with forward lines who struggle to control the play down low, forcing poor neutral zone line changes
11) Placed on the ice against forward lines who are strong finishers
12) Placed on the ice with forward lines who lack finish
13) Playing in front of a goalie letting in softies
14) Playing against a goalie making saves
That also doesn't account for individual plays by linemates.
5 vs 5 relative shot attempt stats, whether you "agree" with them or not, when used in context, describe better how a player's team played with them on the ice. They aren't skewed by special teams shorthanded goals, they have a significantly larger sample size to draw from, when charted properly they should be accompanied by Quality of Teammate/Opposition and Relative Zone Start, and they are independant of goaltending. Further you can apply With-or-Without-You to somewhat identify which linemate may be dragging a line or pairing down. You'll never completely separate a player from his teammates, and there may be a dissonance to a player's "visually bothersome" gaffes, but it's all still a more useful measure than +/-.
__________________
"May those who accept their fate find happiness. May those who defy it find glory."
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to GranteedEV For This Useful Post:
1) Killing penalties and on the ice for shorties for (you get a +)
2) Placed on the ice predominantly in the offensive zone
3) Placed on the ice with forward lines who control the play below the hashmarks, allowing for offensive zone line changes
4) Placed on the ice against forward lines who lack finish
5) Placed on the ice with forward lines who finish well
6) Playing in front of a goalie making saves
7) Playing against a goalie letting in soft goals
+/- punishes defensemen who are:
8) On the power play and on the ice for shorties against (you get a -)
9) Placed on the ice predominantly in the defensive zone
10) Placed on the ice with forward lines who struggle to control the play down low, forcing poor neutral zone line changes
11) Placed on the ice against forward lines who are strong finishers
12) Placed on the ice with forward lines who lack finish
13) Playing in front of a goalie letting in softies
14) Playing against a goalie making saves
That also doesn't account for individual plays by linemates.
5 vs 5 relative shot attempt stats, whether you "agree" with them or not, when used in context, describe better how a player's team played with them on the ice. They aren't skewed by special teams shorthanded goals, they have a significantly larger sample size to draw from, when charted properly they should be accompanied by Quality of Teammate/Opposition and Relative Zone Start, and they are independant of goaltending. Further you can apply With-or-Without-You to somewhat identify which linemate may be dragging a line or pairing down. You'll never completely separate a player from his teammates, and there may be a dissonance to a player's "visually bothersome" gaffes, but it's all still a more useful measure than +/-.
I'd also add that scoring chance differential/high danger scoring chance differential is also more telling when used in context, and that Hamilton is leading the Flames D by a country mile on those counts.
