IF Julien and/or Hitchcock are fired, does Treliving make a move?

[Huntingwhale]

Tippett was the guy that I wanted when B. Sutter got hired. I wouldn't mind him. I'd also be happy with Julien.

I like the work ethic that Hartley has instilled here and hope next season is better for him. At the same time, I don't think he'll have a long leash if the Flames stumble out of the gates again. If the Flames play the same style of play that got them in the hole to start last season, he'l be gone by Xmas.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hartley's up-tempo style is Burke's up-tempo style.

One thing we know for a fact is that the Flames won't play defensive hockey as long as Burke is here.

Like Wilson's up tempo and Carslyle's up tempo style? Or like Patrick Roy's up tempo style?

Defense wins championships

[btimbit]

I've flip flopped on this a bit. I'd love Hitchcock but no thanks to Julien.

Not sure if I'm ready to give up on Hartley though. I know I've been critical all year long but I do like the guy. I'd be okay with moving him for Hitchcock but other than that, stick with 'artley

The associate and assistants though? Not so sure if they should stay

[Locke]

I'd also be game for Tippett.

But considering the argument of 'bad coaching' I dont know what it was, but something was wrong with Special Teams this year. I dont know if it was coaching or just Murphy's law or what but its something to consider.

[Flame19,289]

Only if they can play in goal.

[saillias]

Most of these coaches are flexible to what they have to work with. No potential coach is going to come here and look at this group and say we need to play the trap, always.

The Coyotes are boring? Yeah, that's because their roster has been useless for nearly a decade. And if you think the prime 2011 Bruins were boring then maybe hockey isn't your thing.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Like Wilson's up tempo and Carslyle's up tempo style? Or like Patrick Roy's up tempo style?

Defense wins championships

Hockey is still a business. It's hard to sell tickets and promote your team when your star players are getting 50 Pts

[JohnnyB]

The make-up of the team, with numerous offensive defenders, suits Hartley's style of coaching but seems like mismatch for Tippet.

Anyways, the team is more likely to succeed or fail based upon Treliving's work this off-season. If he can fill the missing pieces I think Hartley can get the team to the playoffs.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Give Hartley a competent goalie before you fire him. In his tenure he had the worst days of Kipper, Reto Berra, Joey MacDonald, Karri Ramo, Joni Ortio, and the last gasps of Jonas Hiller's career.

And yet he still took this rebuilding team to the conference semifinals.

If you hand him a solid roster and they're still bad, by all means fire him. I don't know if there's that much of an upgrade on Julien or Hitchcock. They've had some bad/disappointing years too with some pretty good teams, and they only have one cup win each. Sure, they've made the playoffs more times than Hartley, but he had some awful Thrashers teams to work with and some equally terrible Flames teams to work with.

I worry about progression. If it looks like the team isn't getting better, especially key players, then yeah, make the change.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Like Wilson's up tempo and Carslyle's up tempo style? Or like Patrick Roy's up tempo style?

Defense wins championships

Two things

1) If you have a problem with the style, then you should argue we fire Burke. No matter who we hire we will play up-tempo so long as he is POHO

2) Players win championships. If we're going by what you and I generally agree represents the most reliable form of "defense"...
What changed between the 2013 Ducks (48.0% CF) and the 2016 Ducks (52.5% CF)? It wasn't Bruce Beaudreau.
What changed between the 2007 Ducks (53.8% CF) and the 2014 Leafs (42.8% CF)? It wasn't Randy Carlyle.
What changed between the 2014 Bruins (53.9% CF) and 2016 Bruins (49.5% CF)? it wasn't Claude Julien.

The Flames need to improve defensively. Well yeah of course. We've got a 22 year old #3D, a 21 year old #1B Center, a 19 year old #1A Center, and we don't even have a #4D. And aside from Gaudreau we may have the worst winger group in the NHL.

Sometimes I get driven a little bit crazy by some of Hartley's ideas on defense, like how they defended the senators that night Ortio got lit up. But then you watch a Blackhawks game and it's really not all that different. The difference is a guy like Toews or Hossa making a huge play where no one on our team does the same. I'm sure there are tweaks Hartley can make to improve this team but it's also possible he's willing to make them come playoff time as adjustments.

I don't think this year's roster underperformed or overperformed relative to who was on the ice. It wasn't a case of the Pittsburgh Penguins missing the playoffs.

[AltaGuy]

I would love to have Tippett. I think he will be our next coach, so if he becomes available, I think Treliving moves as fast as possible.

I like Hartley, but I do not think that this group will win a Stanley Cup with him, and I think Tippett is a big step up.

Don't want Julien or Hitch though.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Both play boring styles and Burke says hockey needs to be entertaining

you know what's entertaining?

Winning.

[Moneyhands23]

Maybe hire Crawford. He already has a good relationship with Matthews...

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Hockey is still a business. It's hard to sell tickets and promote your team when your star players are getting 50 Pts

How did Calgary do in 2004? How is LA doing these days? Florida now that they are winning but still scoring. Boston likely had happier fans in 2010 than this year where they scored more.

Winning >>>>>> scoring

[transplant99]

I'd also point out that the Washington Capitals gave up the fewest goals this season.

it's not about high flying offense for them anymore (though they are still very good that way as well), its all about team defense and the single reason they were the run away winners of the Presidents trophy this year. They generate their offense from playing defense now as opposed to the last many years where they sacrificed defense to try and generate scoring.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Like Wilson's up tempo and Carslyle's up tempo style? Or like Patrick Roy's up tempo style?

Defense wins championships

Bull. A combination of solid players, offence, and defence, wins championships. If you can't score you can't win the game no matter how good your team is defensively. What a stupid saying.

[Hackey]

If some of these guys become available I think you have to strongly consider it. Elite coaches aren't available all that often. I like Hartley but at the same time I'm not sure I see him being the coach long term. I'd trust Treliving would make the right decision.

[btimbit]

Worst case scenario, the roster improves but they still have a crap start. Fire Hartley 4 months into the year? Doubt any of these good coaches would be available then.

Not convinced Hartley needs to go, but this is some heavy bench talent that might be available.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Two things

1) If you have a problem with the style, then you should argue we fire Burke. No matter who we hire we will play up-tempo so long as he is POHO

2) Players win championships. If we're going by what you and I generally agree represents the most reliable form of "defense"...
What changed between the 2013 Ducks (48.0% CF) and the 2016 Ducks (52.5% CF)? It wasn't Bruce Beaudreau.
What changed between the 2007 Ducks (53.8% CF) and the 2014 Leafs (42.8% CF)? It wasn't Randy Carlyle.
What changed between the 2014 Bruins (53.9% CF) and 2016 Bruins (49.5% CF)? it wasn't Claude Julien.

The Flames need to improve defensively. Well yeah of course. We've got a 22 year old #3D, a 21 year old #1B Center, a 19 year old #1A Center, and we don't even have a #4D. And aside from Gaudreau we may have the worst winger group in the NHL.

Sometimes I get driven a little bit crazy by some of Hartley's ideas on defense, like how they defended the senators that night Ortio got lit up. But then you watch a Blackhawks game and it's really not all that different. The difference is a guy like Toews or Hossa making a huge play where no one on our team does the same. I'm sure there are tweaks Hartley can make to improve this team but it's also possible he's willing to make them come playoff time as adjustments.

I don't think this year's roster underperformed or overperformed relative to who was on the ice. It wasn't a case of the Pittsburgh Penguins missing the playoffs.

Here's the flip side of your argument:

What happened to Pittsburgh on December 12th that had them at 48.4% CF then increase to 54.9 after?

Or Toronto finishing with a 46.5% last year and getting 51.3 this year?


Coaching can make a difference and I think it will for Calgary

[the_only_turek_fan]

Tippett, IIRC has built a home in the PHX area. Would he move to CGY?