Teachers work "really hard'.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Slight devils advocate here, but it's very rare for any construction worker to get winters off. The one industry that really shuts down for winter is concrete pouring. Teachers do have a non labour intense job with wicked benefits and yes they're overpaid but I couldn't imagine having the patience of a Jr high teacher.

Deep utilities is largely seasonal (June - November) which is why I used it as an example

Edit: I didn't mean for this post to come across as snarky as it does

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Slight devils advocate here, but it's very rare for any construction worker to get winters off. The one industry that really shuts down for winter is concrete pouring. Teachers do have a non labour intense job with wicked benefits and yes they're overpaid but I couldn't imagine having the patience of a Jr high teacher.

What about all those union workers that maintain the city owned golf courses?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by blueski

This job is ripe for robots to swoop in and do all the menial tasks like teaching with just a handful of relationship/socialization coaches left overseeing the whole school. I'd give it ten years tops, teaching like we know it will be gone.

Menial task?

There are few jobs that require more actual human interaction than teaching a classroom full of children. If robot teachers are a decade away, the people (most of us) who rely on computers/work with computers have two years left at most.

[Derek Sutton]

So many teachers have never been outside of the education system, few have had to make a living doing anything other then going to school or teaching school. Occasional meaningless summer jobs aside, taking criticism is a foreign concept to teachers. 48 hours a week is nothing to many salaried workers in every industry, and I'd take managing 25 kids over managing 25 adults any day of the week.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about all those union workers that maintain the city owned golf courses?

Many are seasonal employees and spend the winter on call for snow removal, not working and not getting paid. Some are luck enough to work at indoor facilities such as hockey rinks, it depends on seniority.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Please tell me this was satire.

Oh, don't act like you didn't watch a sh*t ton of TV during school. I'm not even mad at teachers for doing it. Concede your lesson to an AV that has already encapsulated it perfectly, and go mark some papers on company time. Pretty sure Social 20 was all WWI&WWII documentaries, wasn't it? Grade 8 LA? Read the book and then watch the movie in class? The Outsiders? About the only class that we didn't get to watch movies or documentaries in was math... Hence the "problem question worksheet" quip. Every teacher does it. Watch a french movie in French class? Ok. Pretty sure I even watched the early 90s equivalent of Youtube videos in Mechanics class. Here's how to change an alternator. I'll be back in an hour.

[driveway]

Oil and Gas is the laziest industry IMO. Oil is easier an cheaper to get and produce than Coca-Cola, the vast majority of workers simply sit in offices all day and occasionally have meetings. There's travel, conferences, etc. most O&G office workers put in maybe 4 hours a day of real "work" and spend the rest of the day on the net/phone/reading reports, standing at the office cooler.

Then they have the audacity to a) claim they're worth 100k+ a year, and b) whine and complain when the market forces they love so much hurt their employability.

I'd sure love 140k a year to operate spreadsheets.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by driveway

I'd sure love 140k a year to operate spreadsheets.

They don't call us spreadsheet engineers for nothing!

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by driveway

Oil and Gas is the laziest industry IMO. Oil is easier an cheaper to get and produce than Coca-Cola, the vast majority of workers simply sit in offices all day and occasionally have meetings. There's travel, conferences, etc. most O&G office workers put in maybe 4 hours a day of real "work" and spend the rest of the day on the net/phone/reading reports, standing at the office cooler.

Then they have the audacity to a) claim they're worth 100k+ a year, and b) whine and complain when the market forces they love so much hurt their employability.

I'd sure love 140k a year to operate spreadsheets.

I jumped industries to O&G last winter and put in an average of 288 hours a month in 2015. Where can I find the 4 hour a day jobs that pay $140k a year?

[kevman]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I jumped industries to O&G last winter and put in an average of 288 hours a month in 2015. Where can I find the 4 hour a day jobs that pay $140k a year?

So 9+ hours/day assuming no days off?

Time to tell your boss you need help. 288 hours is full time work for two employees which is a pretty easy business case for help.

[driveway]

Oh wait, that's not how it is? Someone who isn't in the industry doesn't understand or has an inaccurate impression? Wow. Shocking.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I jumped industries to O&G last winter and put in an average of 288 hours a month in 2015. Where can I find the 4 hour a day jobs that pay $140k a year?

It's the bull**** myth that non Oil and Gas people trot out every chance they get.

[jayswin]

Oh hahaha, I get what you were doing now, driveway. My bad.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Oh hahaha, I get what you were doing now, driveway. My bad.

Yeah, I walked right in to that one haha. The Coca-Cola line should have tipped us off


It's definitely a good point. The only difference being that with education, most people spend 12 ish years of their life, if not more, being around that system. I've never taught, but I know what teachers I had that were just plain awful

[kevman]

I don't know, I reckon driveways account is pretty accurate. 4hrs/day of productive work isn't just an O&G thing it's pretty much an every industry thing. There's a reason why Sweden is experimenting with the 6 hour work day.

Work smarter, not harder!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by icecube

No wonder they seem so stupid compared to the rest of the western world. They pay their teachers so pitifully.

Teachers in Finland get paid less than American teachers, and Finland is usually at the top of international rankings in student testing.

Canadian teachers are among the best paid in the world, edged only by Switzerland and Germany. And since Alberta teachers make much more than the national average, Alberta teachers are probably the best paid in the world.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/educati...chsal-table-en

It would be interesting to see what teachers would be paid if it were left up to the market. When you consider the other options available to Canadians who major in Sociology, English, and Art History, I'm guessing it would be considerably lower.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by driveway

Oh wait, that's not how it is? Someone who isn't in the industry doesn't understand or has an inaccurate impression? Wow. Shocking.

Except that here we have all spent at least a dozen years in that system. I get your point, I just think its a little off here. I actually think that a lot of the issue isn't the actual wage that teachers get paid. Its the other things like the issues with "bad" teachers who seemingly face no potential of job loss or can't be removed.

Then you pile on the benefits and specifically the defined benefit pension and I think that you have the main issues for the general public. I would hazard a guess that even young teachers don't love that the system allows some slackers to ride through with secure jobs and then we'll be paying for these people for their entire lives.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Teachers in Finland get paid less than American teachers, and Finland is usually at the top of international rankings in student testing.

Canadian teachers are among the best paid in the world, edged only by Switzerland and Germany. And since Alberta teachers make much more than the national average, Alberta teachers are probably the best paid in the world.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/educati...chsal-table-en

It would be interesting to see what teachers would be paid if it were left up to the market. When you consider the other options available to Canadians who major in Sociology, English, and Art History, I'm guessing it would be considerably lower.

Don't the teachers in Finland have to hold a masters degree though as well?That's a significant difference if I recall that correctly.

[CliffFletcher]

While we regard Europe as more socialist than North America, and in most respects it is, the teachers unions in Canada and the U.S. are unusually strong. It makes educational reform much tougher on this side of the Atlantic.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Deep utilities is largely seasonal (June - November) which is why I used it as an example

Edit: I didn't mean for this post to come across as snarky as it does

No worries, I didn't take it snarkily. I've seen some deep utilities done in the winter before but it does slow down. However most of them aren't pulling in an experienced teachers salary while they work.