Teachers work "really hard'.

[transplant99]

I think teachers are among some of the most important people children will ever come across and help mould them into what we hope will be happy and successful adults.

i also have zero doubt that the job can be stressful and very challenging at times.

So with the collective bargaining agreements upcoming for all Alberta teachers and knowing how the NDP "braintrust" like to work, it will not surprise many if they cash in.

today in the Herald a study was released where teachers voluntarily submitted how many hours they work each week on average.

the answer? 48. And that has been labelled as working 'very hard".

48 hours a week is indeed a bit longer than most but even by the definition of a work week by the Alberta government it is only 4 hours more a week than average.

When you consider 2 months off in the summer, 2+ weeks at Christmas, a week for Easter/spring break, teachers convention, and all the stat holidays that fall during the school year.....is 48 hours a week really that "hard"?

I personally work well over 50 hours each and every week, though much of that is by my choice.

Maybe I'm just old school and out of touch, but anyone claiming that 48 hours a week is "hard" is out to lunch in my opinion.

The study, done in co-operation with the ATA and the Alberta School Boards Association, asked 3,374 teachers, 357 administrators and 173 office staff to complete surveys about the time they spend doing specific tasks throughout their days.

Most of the teachers’ time during school hours — 59 per cent — was spent instructing students, with 22 per cent dedicated to planning and preparing for instruction.

Of the hours worked after school, 40 per cent was spent planning with another 29 per cent on assessment and grading, with similar trends occurring on weekends.

A typical work week for teachers averaged 48 hours while that of administrators was 50 hours.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/su...380/story.html

[Locke]

I look at it from the perspective that teaching is almost 'Seasonal Work.'

I wont dispute that they work hard, if you're working more than the mandated 44 hours per week then yeah, I'd say that counts as working hard.

But you punch in those extra hours in exchange for vacation. I dont think its realistic to expect huge swathes of time off without having to make up for it here and there. If they averaged it out as total hours worked over the course of a working year would they still be in excess of the average?

I also dont like the use of the terminology of working 'hard,' I'd prefer something like working 'a lot.'

Lets be honest, they're not outside crushing big rocks into smaller rocks or anything.

[devo22]

Ah yes, the "you're a teacher, you don't work that hard! And you have soooo much time off!" line. I get that one a few times every week and at the beginning it was bugging me, but at some point, it just gets tiresome

I know older colleagues who just don't seem to care as much anymore and don't come close to 48 hours a week because they don't spend a lot of planning anymore. At the same time, the young teachers who've just graduated from university are buried in work ... my first year was brutal in that regard.

I kind of like Lockes argument of working "a lot" instead of "hard", I think that's a fair statement. I will say though that I worked in an office a few years ago and I can honestly say that 3 hours of teaching can be much harder than 10 hours of office work.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by devo22

Ah yes, the "you're a teacher, you don't work that hard! And you have soooo much time off!" line. I get that one a few times every week and at the beginning it was bugging me, but at some point, it just gets tiresome

I know older colleagues who just don't seem to care as much anymore and don't come close to 48 hours a week because they don't spend a lot of planning anymore. At the same time, the young teachers who've just graduated from university are buried in work ... my first year was brutal in that regard.

I kind of like Lockes argument of working "a lot" instead of "hard", I think that's a fair statement. I will say though that I worked in an office a few years ago and I can honestly say that 3 hours of teaching can be much harder than 10 hours of office work.

I wouldnt disagree with that.

People suck. Children though? They're just the worst.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Locke

I wouldnt disagree with that.

People suck. Children though? They're just the worst.

This.

The people who have to put up with my kids deserve a raise, because whatever they are getting paid is probably not enough.

On the actual topic, I think a teachers job is far more demanding than most office jobs. How many hours a week do office workers spend on CP/Reddit/Facebook/Phone/whatever during their 40 hour work week that just isn't possible if you are teaching a class? If you figure 1 hour a day, that's 250 hours a year, assuming only 2 weeks vacation.

That's the equivalent of 31 working days a year, or 1.5 months. When you consider vacation time of 2+ weeks, suddenly the 2 months off a year doesn't seem like that much of an advantage

[White Out 403]

Teachers should be highly trained, highly paid. It should be a sought after position. It's such an important job.

Kudos to teachers.

[wretched34]

If someone offered me a job, and said "if you stick it out for a few years, it's a 6 figure salary, with 12+ weeks annual vacation" I'd work "alot" in those 40ish weeks too.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Teachers should be highly trained, highly paid. It should be a sought after position. It's such an important job.

Kudos to teachers.

They are highly trained and they are well paid.

[JiriHrdina]

I think it is difficult to find a full time job where you don't put in more than 40 hours per week. And I think every job has unique challenges. Teaching is just the same as all those jobs in that regard. It has unique challenges but also some unique benefits.

[btimbit]

I can tell where this thread is going already.

All I'll add is I wish there was a way to hold bad teachers more accountable. I do believe it's a very hard job, and I wish the good teachers weren't so few and far between. I'd probably burn out after a few years of that job, but what I can't understand is why so many teachers keep doing it after they develop such a disdain for children.

The good teachers deserve way more praise than they get. The bad ones, I'd like to see criticized more openly.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I think it is difficult to find a full time job where you don't put in more than 40 hours per week. And I think every job has unique challenges. Teaching is just the same as all those jobs in that regard. It has unique challenges but also some unique benefits.

I have never had an office job where I was expected to put in more than 40 hours a week. Sure, I am on salary and sometimes the nature of my job requires me to stick around for after hours work, but I have always been able to cut out early or come in late on another day to make up for it.

I could just have been lucky though.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I have never had an office job where I was expected to put in more than 40 hours a week. Sure, I am on salary and sometimes the nature of my job requires me to stick around for after hours work, but I have always been able to cut out early or come in late on another day to make up for it.

I could just have been lucky though.

Again, it totally depends on the type of work. Some are more flexible than others.

[Slava]

Well let me be the first to suggest that the 48 hours is not accurate for most teachers. Are there some that put that time in? Absolutely. But seriously how can elementary (say K-4) teachers be putting in that many hours? Unless there are some extra things that I'm not aware of, 48 hours seems incredibly high.

[burn_this_city]

All public servants should not anticipate any salary increases until the economy improves. If the ATA thinks they're going to get increases and other perks in this environment they're sorely mistaken and the public will turn on them during negotiations.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I have never had an office job where I was expected to put in more than 40 hours a week. Sure, I am on salary and sometimes the nature of my job requires me to stick around for after hours work, but I have always been able to cut out early or come in late on another day to make up for it.

I could just have been lucky though.

This matches my experience exactly. Occasional overtime has sometimes been required either to meet a project deadline or to perform work that can only be done after hours so as not to disrupt the rest of the organization (I work in IT), but a typical week for me has always been ~40 hours. When I do have to work overtime, I can either come in late or leave early the next day to make up the hours.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

All public servants should not anticipate any salary increases until the economy improves. If the ATA thinks they're going to get increases and other perks in this environment they're sorely mistaken and the public will turn on them during negotiations.

I agree that we should more or less be looking at a wage freeze in this economic environment, but why wouldnt the ATA think they're going to get what they want? The stars are aligned for them and quite frankly there isnt a damned thing we the public can do about it.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I can tell where this thread is going already.

All I'll add is I wish there was a way to hold bad teachers more accountable. I do believe it's a very hard job, and I wish the good teachers weren't so few and far between. I'd probably burn out after a few years of that job, but what I can't understand is why so many teachers keep doing it after they develop such a disdain for children.

The good teachers deserve way more praise than they get. The bad ones, I'd like to see criticized more openly.

There are bad/lazy/stupid workers in every field and somehow they have jobs. As much as I would like for the people that my tax dollars pay to be top notch all the time, I do have a realistic understanding that if people like this have jobs in private enterprise, how can I expect public servants to be able to reach a higher standard? Do they have access to better management and/or assessment tools?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Rathji

There are bad/lazy/stupid workers in every field and somehow they have jobs. As much as I would like for the people that my tax dollars pay to be top notch all the time, I do have a realistic understanding that if people like this have jobs in private enterprise, how can I expect public servants to be able to reach a higher standard? Do they have access to better management and/or assessment tools?

Some office worker that puts in 38 hours a week doesn't have the chance to single handily ruin a child's desire to learn and potentially affect their future. Teachers need to be held to a higher standard because of the nature of the job, nothing to do with being private or public sector

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by btimbit

The good teachers deserve way more praise than they get. The bad ones, I'd like to see criticized more openly.

I've mentioned it before, but the crazy thing we've personally seen and experienced is the complete lack of discipline and consequence on the system. You literally cannot get fired or disciplined unless you start sleeping with a student in the school board system. And even then it'll take a while.

We know people who have had to deal with individuals working in that system who have dozens of sexual harassment complaints over multiple years. All noted on their record but they can't do a thing because of that cushy union system.

The amount of waste and abuse in a job environment where there is literally no consequence was amazing to hear about and see in person. It would be hilarious if it wasn't funded by tax dollars. Can you imagine that kind of work environment at a normal company where everybody cannot be fired, ever?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Some office worker that puts in 38 hours a week doesn't have the chance to single handily ruin a child's desire to learn and potentially tarnish their future. Teachers need to be held to a higher standard because of the nature of the job, nothing to do with being private or public sector

I agree, but how can you do that?

Lets take the public/private sector out of the equation. How would you go about setting up processes to stop bad employees from staying employed?