There are Richard Carrier and Robert Price, both of whom are marginal scholars with massive chips on their shoulders and axes to grind. The vast majority of scholars who work in the field of middle eastern antiquities are very comfortable with various reconstructions of the historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer, et al. Virtually none of them find a single element of the mythicist theory even remotely convincing or altogether plausible.
As usual, on both counts you are wrong. And you continue to spout these blatant falsehoods no matter how often I debunk them.
First, while there are elements of pagan ritual and ideology embedded within Christianity, it is thoroughly a Hellenised Jewish religion. Second, the very substance of Christianity is grounded on a belief in the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth. Were there no Jesus, there would almost certainly be no Christianity. Third, while the historical value of the NT is limited, it is a gross exaggeration to say that it contains no historical value. The NT for all its flaws remains the best available source for the life of Jesus and the emergence Christianity. But even beyond that, the NT is invaluable as an historical source for early Judaism, and for Roman rule in Palestine during the first century C.E.
Yes. That "underlying reason" would be a primary commitment to historical plausibility, and the vast majority of them are not lining their pockets from booksellers and appearances in film documentaries. They are academics. Which means than most are badly overworked, and severely underpaid.
On all counts, the existence of Jesus is eminently plausible, and it remains the best explanation for the emergence of Christianity in the first century C.E.
And how do you make at least part of your living Mr. Textcritic?
Threw out history many "famous" people have been proven to exist, From 5000 year old pharaohs, 2060 year old Julius Caesar to the crazy 800 year old Genghis Khan. and many many more.
But be my guess, try and prove Jesus existed, and while your at it prove Thor, Zeus and Horus as well.. It's all a bunch of BS.
But be my guess, try and prove Jesus existed, and while your at it prove Thor, Zeus and Horus as well.. It's all a bunch of BS.
Maybe you should guess less and read more.
The existence of Jesus as a historical person is supported by non-Christian sources such as Tacitus, one of the most significant Roman historians, born about 20 years after the death of Jesus. Who describes him as a Jewish prophet executed in Jerusalem by Pontius Pilatus.
He is also mentioned by Syrians and him and his followers were satirized by the Greeks. The Roman sources are most numerous though.
As a non-believer, I have no issue conceding the existence of Jesus, the man. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether one can "prove" it or not. Much more interested in the discussion of his claimed divinity, or the role of any religion in modern life, for that matter.
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As a non-believer, I have no issue conceding the existence of Jesus, the man. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether one can "prove" it or not. Much more interested in the discussion of his claimed divinity, or the role of any religion in modern life, for that matter.
That is the thing for me as well.
I can accept that the man Jesus existed, but I can't accept that the God Jesus existed.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Yeah another non-believer here who doesn't even see why this would matter religiously. Even if the non-existence of Jesus as a historical character would be proven without a doubt, it wouldn't affect modern Christianity. It lives a life of it's own.
But I'm always prone to go with the expert opinion, and it seems to be the most common expert opinion is that the man existed. Which admittedly is also kind of a cool idea in some ways.
Highly highly highly doubt there was even a man named Jesus that started Christianity. Absolutely certain that there was no cosmic superpowered son of God, jesus.
Yeah another non-believer here who doesn't even see why this would matter religiously. Even if the non-existence of Jesus as a historical character would be proven without a doubt, it wouldn't affect modern Christianity. It lives a life of it's own.
.
I would think that if it was shown beyond a doubt that Jesus didn't exist, the must surely must affect the religion based/built upon the belief that he was a God among men.
No?
My foggy Sunday School memory tells me that Jesus is a key pillar to the church, specifically his being a part of the Holy Trinity.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
I would think that if it was shown beyond a doubt that Jesus didn't exist, the must surely must affect the religion based/built upon the belief that he was a God among men.
No?
My foggy Sunday School memory tells me that Jesus is a key pillar to the church, specifically his being a part of the Holy Trinity.
I don't think people would let it bother them. Most would ignore the facts, others would just explain it as a spiritual thing anyway. The role of Jesus in Christianity would very likely remain exactly the same.
And how do you make at least part of your living Mr. Textcritic?
I sure as hell am not getting rich by writing and teaching about religion and history. And while I require compensation for my services, its certainly not why I am academic in the first place.
Quote:
Threw out history many "famous" people have been proven to exist, From 5000 year old pharaohs, 2060 year old Julius Caesar to the crazy 800 year old Genghis Khan. and many many more.
But be my guess, try and prove Jesus existed, and while your at it prove Thor, Zeus and Horus as well.. It's all a bunch of BS.
Good one.
Who said anything about "proof"? Ancient historiography is not about proof because it is so elusive. It's about probabilities, and on that metric an historical Jesus is still far and away the best explanation for the emergence of Christianity and the New Testament.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
As a non-believer, I have no issue conceding the existence of Jesus, the man. It makes absolutely no difference to me whether one can "prove" it or not. Much more interested in the discussion of his claimed divinity, or the role of any religion in modern life, for that matter.
A fairly significant number of scholars will contest the notion that Jesus ever claimed to be a divine being. It is much more likely that any messianic claims he ever did make for himself were more closely aligned with traditional Jewish ideas about their messiah who IS NOT a divine figure.
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Dealing with Everything from Dead Sea Scrolls to Red C Trolls
Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
Threw out history many "famous" people have been proven to exist, From 5000 year old pharaohs, 2060 year old Julius Caesar to the crazy 800 year old Genghis Khan. and many many more.
Excellently ironic.
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Are you guys seriously using a poster's spelling as proof jesus existed? I am pretty sure you guys have all made typos.
Are we really debating if a story that is obviously false has some basis in truth? There is no concrete evidence he existed and lots of historical documents of the time seriously don't mention him. What does mention him, is either very vague and could be about a different person, or part of the religious BS.
If he did exist, the stories about him were made up...seems like a bit of a silly debate.
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