Homework Is Killing Kids

[Frank the Tank]

Originally Posted by ericschand

Don't know if this a good thread for this, but what about
Montessori schools? Anyone have a child in one?
How is it? What are your experiences with it?

It addresses some of the items in this thread; learning
enviornment, homework, etc.

Mine is in a Monetssori pre-school, and will be attending
Montessori ECS and school in the following years.

Montessori Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori

ers

We are currently saving every nickel so our son can go to Montessori for a while. I've heard nothing but praise for their system.

[habernac]

rarely or never did homework, I just didn't care, really. Got mostly B's and C's, though I no doubt could have had better marks. A little bit of homework is ok, but you don't want to see kids stuck doing the stuff for 12 hours on the weekends.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by habernac

rarely or never did homework, I just didn't care, really. Got mostly B's and C's, though I no doubt could have had better marks. A little bit of homework is ok, but you don't want to see kids stuck doing the stuff for 12 hours on the weekends.

Yeah, that was me, too. I couldn't be bothered to do assignments at home when there was more exciting and interesting stuff to get involved in--like playing street hockey for 3.5 hours a day.

Seriously--I think it's easy to forget that children's brains are always developing, and if anything we need to COMPENSATE for the fact that they spend most of their time in school by granting them plenty of leisure time in which to play, socialize, explore the world, learn for themselves, etc. I think the mistake comes in thinking that learning school material is the only important form of learning children engage in.

I was a pretty average student in Junior High and High School, mostly because of my refusal to do homework. (it wasn't a principled stand or anything--I just found it boring). There was plenty of hand-wringing among my teachers and a little by my parents that I would always be an underachiever, because unlike my siblings, I was barely passing and showed little interest in improving. Now I'm less than a year from my PhD--so the "preparation for University" angle doesn't hold a lot of water for me. It's time we all let kids be kids for their own health, in my opinion.

This all became a little more immediate for me since I just learned that I'm going to be a dad.

[White Doors]

Congrats! I may be learning that too, but don't want to tell people yet as it's too early. (oops!)

I'm all for letting kids be kids. FOR SURE. You never get that time back and it goes so quickly.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by White Doors

Congrats! I may be learning that too, but don't want to tell people yet as it's too early. (oops!)

Ah, it's a message board--no-one will remember anyway. Congrats to you too.

[redforever]

I don't know. I was in Kumon as a child which is a Japanese math program where you do 30 problems a day everyday. It's timed and graded everyday by your parents. I hated it but it worked like a charm.

Another of my pet peeves. I mentioned before I was a former educator. My main focus teaching was Math at the Junior high level, some senior high Math and Physics too.

Nothing galls me more than teachers who emphasize SPEED. Pray do tell, what importance is speed? especially today. There are all kinds of technical gadgets out there that will do the speed for you. Interesting though, if you dont have the skills and knowledge to enter the data into that technical gadget, it wont work period, not fast, not slow.

Teaching should be about giving students skills and knowledge, not speed, unless you are perhaps a Phys Ed teacher teaching kids how to run the 100 meters.

I knew a teacher who used math speed thingeys everyday, interestingly at precisely the same time kids came back from recess or noon break. Why? Cause they had no discipline skills. That teacher used those speed drills to settle the kids down.

And imagine how bad you make some students feel with those speed drills, especially at a young age when their psyche is so tender. You can have students with excellent math skills and knowledge but not the speed to finish first.

Teaching, in particular Math, should be about learning a process to get to an answer. And in many cases, there is not just one process. I always told my students, there are many ways to get from point A to point B. I will try and help you learn some of them. If you have another way, put it down on paper, show me, you will get the credits.

[Cheese]

It is a BIG problem these days. My daughter had at least an hour of homework a day in Grades 4, 5 & 6...now she is in Junior High Gr 7 and the teacher has informed us its 70 minutes AVERAGE per day. I actually printed this article and sent it to her. No comment back so far. The teacher went as far as to suggest that it will be 70 minutes in Gr 7, 80 in 8, 90 in 9 and so on. I laughed...literally.
We have our kids in swimming, art classes and sundry other things that expand their minds and bodies OUTSIDE of the education system. Not to mention family time and being a kid time. Once we get back from these there are days where the time before bed is limited to far less than what the teachers expect.
My daughters teacher suggested that homework is ONLY information that was not taught that day or had time for in that day. I suggested they needed to look at and revise their planning and be more realistic in what they expected children to accomplish from 8:30 to 3pm.
Fortunately our daughter is an exellent student who has little difficulty with comprehension and actually enjoys studying...most of the time. For that reason I dont get in her face about it and fully support her when time limits what she can and cant do.

My son...well......hes a different story...LOL

[Clarkey]

The guy very well may be on to something but he hasn't done any research to back up his claims. He's too sure of himself for not having done any studies. But then again he's probably not willing to do the work and instead just wants people to buy a bunch of books based on his controversial topic.

I was always top 2 or 3 in the class when I was younger, then heavy homework started around grade 6 and my grades went down to the average level. I just was not willing to remember biology terms or fill in worksheets or whatever. I think it's the economist in me, the tiny benefit I would get from filling in some worksheet was not worth the cost of taking up an hour of my time that I felt could be better spent playing street hockey, watching tv, reading a book etc.

I think that there are enough hours in a school day that kids should be able to cover everything they need without bringing stuff home very often. The kids are sitting in a classroom for 6 or 7 hours. I think we need to look at how efficient the school day is managed. There was so much wasted time when I was in school, mainly due to disciplining kids. I should add that I think around highschool age it is more understandable for kids to have homework.

There are certain classes that just flat out require extra work outside of the classroom. Math is one of them, my no homework philosophy caught up with me in high school because it didn't work for math. I ended up getting into university but was screwed for the next four years trying to get my math up to par, I ended up taking math 349 3 times.

I know that I came out of university learning a lot more than many of my peers. I didn't have great grades, C's the first couple years then I finished with a B average but from talking to others I think I have a better understanding of the material. There were some guys that were so obsessed with marks it was rediculous.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Clarkey

The guy very well may be on to something but he hasn't done any research to back up his claims. He's too sure of himself for not having done any studies. But then again he's probably not willing to do the work and instead just wants people to buy a bunch of books based on his controversial topic

Hmm... I kind of had the impression that the book WAS his research--and though he didn't do the firsthand studies, that to some extent he was reporting on their results--results that ought to be somewhat discomfiting to the school system. I agree that he's somewhat dogmatic at times, but he does seem to have some chops.

Originally Posted by Clarkey

I think that there are enough hours in a school day that kids should be able to cover everything they need without bringing stuff home very often. The kids are sitting in a classroom for 6 or 7 hours.

This is what persuades me the most. Imagine working for 7 hours at your job and then being told that you need to work another 3-4 just to meet the expectations of your contract. You'd want overtime, right? Yet we're piling this work on young kids, and thus making their experience of life LESS rich instead of richer. I think it's a problem that we overstructure childrens' time anyway. When I was a kid I used to hop on my bike on Saturday mornings and my mom wouldn't see me until it was time to eat. It seems like nowadays that would be unthinkable.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I always loved learning, always hated homework. Something is profoundly messed up with our school systems, not sure what the right answer is but I know we're doing a lot of things wrong.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

This is what persuades me the most. Imagine working for 7 hours at your job and then being told that you need to work another 3-4 just to meet the expectations of your contract. You'd want overtime, right? Yet we're piling this work on young kids, and thus making their experience of life LESS rich instead of richer. I think it's a problem that we overstructure childrens' time anyway. When I was a kid I used to hop on my bike on Saturday mornings and my mom wouldn't see me until it was time to eat. It seems like nowadays that would be unthinkable.

Interesting, but I know in my role, that its not out of the question for me to do 2 hours of extra work at night just so that I'm prepared for the next day of work, and I don't get paid for that. But me being putting in that time and making sure that I'm prepared is going to increase my recognition and eventually my earnings.

Thats the sad price of success in this century.

Put me on the side of people that have no problems with assigning kids an hour of homework a night, to me it teaches responsibility and accountibility. It also re-enforces what was learned that day or that week so that the teacher dosen't have to continually waste time going back over the same thing over and over again.

It used to drive me nuts in school when people wouldn't study or do any preperation, because it slowed down my learning experience. These were the same people that bitched when they received poor or average marks in school.

A hour of homework dosen't kill anyone, and to me it has benefits.

I still had the so called rich life experience growing up, I played hockey, hung out with buddies, went to parties and all of that stuff, and I wasn't stressed out because I didn't leave stuff til the last minute, which is what causes stress.

Guess I'm just a little old school. But I'm still all for year round school, graduating kids at 14 and getting thier small hands into the work force

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

A hour of homework dosen't kill anyone, and to me it has benefits.

I would tend to agree. However if you have 5 subjects on the go, that means each teacher should restrict the homework assignment to 12 minutes.

The problem is each teacher gives 30-60 minutes worth of homework; resulting in 3-4 hours per night.

[Jake]

Hmm... I kind of had the impression that the book WAS his research--and though he didn't do the firsthand studies, that to some extent he was reporting on their results--results that ought to be somewhat discomfiting to the school system. I agree that he's somewhat dogmatic at times, but he does seem to have some chops.

He keeps refering to how the "available data" or "the research" failed to prove some assumptions. I don't think he did any experiments/research, only looked at others research.

That is actually still considered a study (its common in ecology), but the fact he doesn't say where he got his data from or what exactly his data is, makes me skeptical of alot of what he says.

I did about 4 hours a week of homework in highschool and did well enough to get my first year of university payed for. I think that is a very reasonable amount, although my teachers were constantly telling students you need to do at least 3 hours per night. Just don't listen to them. I do about that much now in university, but I think its necessary.

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would tend to agree. However if you have 5 subjects on the go, that means each teacher should restrict the homework assignment to 12 minutes.

The problem is each teacher gives 30-60 minutes worth of homework; resulting in 3-4 hours per night.

And if homework is not proving to be beneficial to grades or performance, one really has to wonder about the value of those hours when compared to the value of spending time with your family and learning about life from your parents.....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I would tend to agree. However if you have 5 subjects on the go, that means each teacher should restrict the homework assignment to 12 minutes.

The problem is each teacher gives 30-60 minutes worth of homework; resulting in 3-4 hours per night.

Its interesting because in talking to some parents, and teachers, there is a concern that no matter how much or how little homework is given, its rarely enforced because parents don't ensure that thier kids are doing it, and kids can't be bothered to do it correctly.

Because of that the teachers lesson plans get blown to pieces and homework starts to pile up as the teacher tries to keep on schedule so the students are prepared for year end and midterm exams.

To me, its a valuable lesson in time management, but the key thing is if the kid keeps up, then the homework dosen't take that long, but if they fall behind, they can sometimes be left behind.

I did like the university approach that if you couldn't bother to study for tests, or do your assignments, the teacher didn't think twice about leaving you behind to sink or swim on your own.

A lot of kids that get into university fail out because they never learn to apply themselves and study and time manage. We'd be failing those kids if we didn't teach them that before they got to university.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

And if homework is not proving to be beneficial to grades or performance, one really has to wonder about the value of those hours when compared to the value of spending time with your family and learning about life from your parents.....

Homework is definately benficial to grades and performance, both in your education, and after the fact.

Personally I had lots of time to spend with my parents learning about life since I was grounded so often when I was growing up.

[return to the red]

my main concern is the difference between homework and STUDYING. When I was going through grade school homework was material you couldn't get through in class and worked through on your own time.
Studying was reviewing that material.

Fortunately I was blessed a genius and was always a chapter or two ahead in math, social studies and Science so I didn't have much homework.

Studying didn't come into play either until university when I killed off everything I learned that day with the booze at night thus leaving me in the position of reviewing everything over

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Homework is definately benficial to grades and performance, both in your education, and after the fact.

That may be--but apparently the research doesn't support that--and indicates that until high school, homework may in fact be entirely useless.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Cheese

It is a BIG problem these days. My daughter had at least an hour of homework a day in Grades 4, 5 & 6...now she is in Junior High Gr 7 and the teacher has informed us its 70 minutes AVERAGE per day. I actually printed this article and sent it to her. No comment back so far. The teacher went as far as to suggest that it will be 70 minutes in Gr 7, 80 in 8, 90 in 9 and so on. I laughed...literally.
We have our kids in swimming, art classes and sundry other things that expand their minds and bodies OUTSIDE of the education system. Not to mention family time and being a kid time. Once we get back from these there are days where the time before bed is limited to far less than what the teachers expect.
My daughters teacher suggested that homework is ONLY information that was not taught that day or had time for in that day. I suggested they needed to look at and revise their planning and be more realistic in what they expected children to accomplish from 8:30 to 3pm.
Fortunately our daughter is an exellent student who has little difficulty with comprehension and actually enjoys studying...most of the time. For that reason I dont get in her face about it and fully support her when time limits what she can and cant do.

Jeez, homework in elementary and junior high?

I was and am a very average student, and I didn't even bring a backpack home until high school, and I've almost completed an undergraduate degree in engineering.

[disco_inferno]

Dang...If only there was no correlation between hours of studying and good grades on finals and mid-terms! Or there was a correlation between how much sleep I needed and my marks, too bad I guess.