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Old 04-08-2016, 10:05 AM   #61
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I think Hamilton's OCT/NOV really showed Brodie's value. Hamilton was just being asked to do too much early on and both him and Gio struggled. Getting our number 1 defensemen really helped balance out the defense.

Gio/Ham/Brodie top 3 is amazing going forward even while Gio regresses as he ages.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:05 AM   #62
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Hamilton has had an up and down year but the skill and potential is obvious. It was a heavy price in terms of trade and contract but defenceman like him simply don't grow on trees and unless you are picking extremely high every year, they are hard to come by. I don't get too excited about the points. Wideman put up what, 56, last year and there is not a poster on here that doesn't want to run him out of town.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:23 AM   #63
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Ryan Miller fetched a first round pick as a rental player from the Blues a few years back. You only need to look at the Habs to see that you can't underestimate the value of top goaltending and if you think a goaltender is going to be very, very good you have to make that deal.
Flames fans should understand this more than anyone. Our dark years pretty much align with a lack of quality netminding.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:35 AM   #64
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Flames fans should understand this more than anyone. Our dark years pretty much align with a lack of quality netminding.
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Yep and right now ??? is a frightening thing for the organization. We don't know right now if Gillies is the answer long term so IMO this team needs to be extensively searching for the next Kipper all the time. I don't see any franchise goaltenders in free agency and with the salary cap situation approaching the ceiling you have to wonder if it makes sense to sign a guy like Reimer to a 5x$4 million deal or whatever he's going to be asking for. I see a guy like Backlund as a small price to pay for a goaltender that the team thinks can be a franchise starter. It's the perfect time to sell high on some of these players that put up career numbers largely at garbage time. I'm not undervaluing Backlund as I simply value a quality starting goaltender more than a quality 3rd line center.

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Old 04-08-2016, 10:36 AM   #65
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Flames fans should understand this more than anyone. Our dark years pretty much align with a lack of quality netminding.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:47 AM   #66
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Wow, amazing cover. Hadn't heard that before.
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:51 AM   #67
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Ortio will be the next Kipper. It's destiny.
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:27 AM   #68
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I think some are undervaluing Backlund here.

I see the core, and I get that Backlund isn't in it per say. But I do think Frolik and Backlund are the key complimentary players to the core going forward, and players you don't just part with on a maybe.

Three young forwards, three key defenseman, and then two more support forwards at this time ... total of 8 pieces.

I don't think many NHL teams get much beyond 10-12 in this count.

The mix is good between forwards and defenseman, just need a goalie to crest this group and the Flames are well on their way.
I think this all really depends on what you consider 'core' from now on.

My 'blueprint' of what core players vs complimentary/support players are based on roles. To be deemed a core component, I feel a player both has to be playing in a certain role, as well as fulfilling expectations for that role.

So what is a blueprint of a championship team to me?

Top Line RW or LW - 1st line center
2nd line center (preferably a 1B)
3rd line center capable of shutting down opposing lines and putting up points
#1 Defencemen - #2 Defencemen
#3 Defencemen
#1 Goalie

I think based on performance, Backlund definitely fulfills the 3rd line center role very well.

Based on the existing players in the lineup, this is where my 'core' comes in:

Gaudreau - Monahan
Bennett
Backlund
Giordano - Brodie
Hamilton
???

One can make an argument that I wouldn't necessarily disagree with in that there needs to be another core winger in the lineup. I think as long as the Flames find complimentary winger that can fulfill their spots, they can be rotated into the lineup for 'x' seasons until they price themselves out.

Biggest question for me is if Backlund ends up pricing himself out long term. I think the max you give a 3rd line center is around 5 million - emphasis on absolute max. I believe in strength from the center, defence and goal.

As for Jankowski - I am not sure there was a bigger 'homer' of his than myself. What I do think is that with his skill-set, he can have the potential to replace Backlund as a core piece if Backlund prices himself out, but I also feel he can be a very good complimentary/support player in the top 6 as a winger. I think that is where his placement on the team will eventually land. If Bennett doesn't take a firm grasp at center, Jankowski COULD be a decent option for the Flames down the road as a playmaking/defensively responsible center with Bennett on one wing. I would bet at this stage however, Jankowski will be the winger.

This will get interesting in a couple of years for Hamilton. When will Giordano slow down? Is Hamilton #1 material, or is he more in the line of a #2? I actually see him more of a #1 type of defencemen - and based on his age and how he has been doing thus far in the league, I would bet he gets there. I do think that a Brodie-Hamilton pairing will be the foundation of the Flames' defence for the next decade as a legitimate elite pairing in the mold of a Weber/Suter (or I guess now, Weber/Josi). That was an absolute steal of a deal.

I would have to assume that Sweeney must not have shopped Hamilton around much at all (and it seemed that way based on the rumors coming out at the time), and I imagine that perhaps other GMs felt he was simply a product of sharing the ice with Chara. I think Hamilton basically has to completely stall his development in order not to end up as a legitimate top-pairing defencemen - and even if he does, I think he only needs to shore up defensively a bit in order to firmly solidify himself as the #3 for the next decade (which is still good).
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:27 AM   #69
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I don't see any franchise goaltenders in free agency and with the salary cap situation approaching the ceiling you have to wonder if it makes sense to sign a guy like Reimer to a 5x$4 million deal or whatever he's going to be asking for.
The positive thing is that maybe it won't cost that much term for Reimer.

I find it unlikely that Toronto looks at bringing him back, and outside of that there isn't really a team looking for a goalie outside of maybe Carolina.

If Reimer wants to be a starter on a team that has a playoff chance then Calgary is his best bet, and it likely won't take 5 years of term to get him here.

If Reimer gets something like 3 years and 14 million total then it wouldn't be a bad move. The only real risk to Reimer will be if the Sharks decide they have the cap space to afford a tandem of Reimer and Jones.
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:15 PM   #70
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Wow, amazing cover. Hadn't heard that before.
Saw them perform this song at the Grey Eagle in February. Not a big fan of that venue for concerts but they managed to make it sound really good in that building.
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:16 PM   #71
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Ben Bishop @ $5M x 5y?
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:20 PM   #72
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The positive thing is that maybe it won't cost that much term for Reimer.

I find it unlikely that Toronto looks at bringing him back, and outside of that there isn't really a team looking for a goalie outside of maybe Carolina.

If Reimer wants to be a starter on a team that has a playoff chance then Calgary is his best bet, and it likely won't take 5 years of term to get him here.

If Reimer gets something like 3 years and 14 million total then it wouldn't be a bad move. The only real risk to Reimer will be if the Sharks decide they have the cap space to afford a tandem of Reimer and Jones.
Yeah I literally have no idea what it's going to take to sign him as I imagine his agent will point to his stats and try to link him with goaltenders being paid over $5 million but I simply don't see a market for him at that salary on any sort of long term deal. Four years is the absolute max I would feel comfortable signing him to but at that term I wouldn't want to pay over $4 million/season.

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Ben Bishop @ $5M x 5y?
No way. He's almost 30 and short term he could be a good fit but to me he's one of those big guys that excels because of his size and I'm weary of age causing him to slow down and be left with a Hiller type guy that can't stop pucks that don't hit his body.

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Old 04-08-2016, 12:26 PM   #73
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Wow, amazing cover. Hadn't heard that before.
I got to see it live when Disturbed played the Grey Eagle in March. Holy shiiiite. So good.
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Typical dumb take.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:11 PM   #74
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Wow, amazing cover. Hadn't heard that before.
Interesting story behind the song. When they were discussing what cover to do for the latest album someone threw the song on the table. Draimn thought they were kidding but one of the guys had the keyboard arrangement already done. He listened to it and was terrified because it was not "Disturbed" enough. Draiman usually requires several sessions to get into the mind space to do a vocal on a song and wasn't ready to take a run at when initially asked. After a couple fatties (Draiman likes the bud) he changed his mind toward the end of the day's session. He spent two hours in the booth doing take after take in various styles.

The next day the band returned and the engineer on the album called Draiman into the booth. From the hundreds of takes the engineer had cobbled together what you heard on the album. Draiman admits he was almost in tears as he listened to the cut. I think this is one of the best and most surprising covers done. Well done by the guy that my wife refers to as "that guy that pukes when he sings!"
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:12 PM   #75
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Schneider was traded for ninth overall right? That is a pretty hefty price.
Do you think a 9th pick is equivalent value for Backlund? I'm not convinced that deal gets made in large part because GMs are consistently loathe to trade good, two-way scoring centres.

I am not dismissing the urgency to acquire a solid goaltender this summer. I am simply not at all convinced that a deal would require the movement of Backjlund in a trade, nor should it. The Flames need him right now, and probably for the next two or three years.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:15 PM   #76
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The positive thing is that maybe it won't cost that much term for Reimer.

I find it unlikely that Toronto looks at bringing him back, and outside of that there isn't really a team looking for a goalie outside of maybe Carolina.

If Reimer wants to be a starter on a team that has a playoff chance then Calgary is his best bet, and it likely won't take 5 years of term to get him here.

If Reimer gets something like 3 years and 14 million total then it wouldn't be a bad move. The only real risk to Reimer will be if the Sharks decide they have the cap space to afford a tandem of Reimer and Jones.
Reimer has a better shot at being the number 1 goalie in Calgary than SJ. If the Sharks want to commit that much cash to a goalie then go for it
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:17 PM   #77
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Do you think a 9th pick is equivalent value for Backlund?
Whoa! You get a 9th over all pick for Backlund you take it and run. Let's not kid ourselves here. Backlund is a third line center. Someone offers you a top 10 draft pick for a 3rd line center you take it.

Now, do you spend that 9th over all pick on a goaltender? No way.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:28 PM   #78
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Whoa! You get a 9th over all pick for Backlund you take it and run. Let's not kid ourselves here. Backlund is a third line center. Someone offers you a top 10 draft pick for a 3rd line center you take it.

Now, do you spend that 9th over all pick on a goaltender? No way.
Depends on the goalie. 9th for Schneider was a great deal for NJ as he's a top 5 goalie.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:33 PM   #79
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The situation is that right now Backlund has two years left on his $3.6 million/season deal which makes him attractive to teams coming off a career season. The issue for the Flames is that if this season is his peak and he drops back to a 30 point player that struggles with injuries then he's likely not going to be offered a contract at the end of his deal as the team will put their money towards keeping other players.
Why should we expect either of these to occur? I suppose he could suffer another injury plagued season, as could any other player on the roster. He has been really consistent in his production ratio and his pace of improvement with each passing year. I expect that he is near his peak offensively, but that is an entirely different thing than expecting him to suddenly regress.

Backlund is a damn good hockey player, even when he is not scoring. There is every reason to believe that he will continue to be a damn good hockey player for the duration of his contract and beyond. To that end, I see no urgency to trade him in the near future.

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If he continues to put up 40 point seasons the team will not be able to retain him when he becomes a free agent (sorry but that's the reality of the raises to the kids and the Giordano contract kicking in) so I simply don't see a scenario where he remains a Flame past his current contract.

I don't think so either, but he still has two full years yet left on his deal. Now is NOT the time to move him.

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That Murray kid certainly looks like the real deal and IMO this is the offseason to sell high on guys like Colborn and Backlund if the team feels that the goaltenders available in free agency are not up to what they deem they need next season to compete for the playoffs.

I could see moving Colborne for a good return that may or may not include a goaltender. But I will repeat, based on the market for goalies over the past few years, there is reason to believe that if Murray is in fact available (and that is a big "IF") then he could be acquired for picks and prospects. Cam Talbot was a more established goalie than Murray is, and he was moved for a package of picks outside the first round. Semyon Varlomov was acquired for a first and second round pick in 2011. (Martin Jones was moved in a multi-player/picks deal, so it is difficult to isolate his value.) As much as the Flames need a goalie, they also need Backlund, and I am confident that they can trade for a quality goalie without including him in the deal.

Having said all that, I don't think there is much chance Treliving can make a deal for Murray.
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Old 04-08-2016, 01:46 PM   #80
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Colborne is one goal shy of being a 20 goal scorer. That's no easy feat for the NHL. Especially considering he has less than 45% offensive zone starts and plays the 3rd highest quality of competition. Plus he's 15th in Flames TOI/GP and putting up a 0.61ppg

Those aren't the stats of a passenger.
David Moss once scored 20 goals in a season.
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