Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice [SPOILERS THREAD]

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cole436

No he didn't. There's one very ambiguous panel where he shoots the criminals gun after bursting through the wall, but in no way is it shown he outright killed anyone.



So? Im not discussing other movies, I'm talking about the actual source of the character.

He kills the Joker. Google it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

He kills the Joker. Google it.

This isn't what happens in TDKR. Either way the death of joker in TDKR is a big deal, as opposed to the casual killing sprees in this movie.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Yes it is. Did you google it? Explain why he didn't.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

He kills the Joker. Google it.

Haha ok, I'm talking to someone whose never read the book then.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Seriously guys?

Is it that much work to look it up? It's even in the wiki article.

It's also supported by the fact that in the comic, joker talks in white speech bubbles like everyone else, but after his neck is snapped, he speaks in grey bubbles, which is the same color as the bubbles used to show what batman is thinking.

Batman defeats The Joker in a violent confrontation, nearly killing him. To incriminate Batman for murder, The Joker seemingly commits suicide by breaking his own neck (whether this actually happened or was imagined by Batman is unconfirmed).

Lol. Since you won't get it Cole I'll explain it. Batman killed him. Joker was dead. Batman is imagining the joker laughing at him for making him break his one rule.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Seriously guys?

Is it that much work to look it up? It's even in the wiki article.





Lol. Since you won't get it Cole I'll explain it. Batman killed him. Joker was dead. Batman is imagining the joker laughing at him for making him break his one rule.

Is it any wonder why the animated film, which was almost a frame by frame adaptation, went with this interpretation of the scene?

Are you kidding me? Did you read it? No, that is absolutely not what happened. Batman paralysed him by breaking his neck, and (as the joker describes) another once of pressure would have killed him. So Joker uses the last of his strength and breaks his own neck, framing Batman for his death so the GCPD will think he murdered.

What you're describing did not happen.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Ok well you're not going to ever get it so let's just leave it at that. The evidence is there, you just have to be willing to interpret it.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Ok well you're not going to ever get it so let's just leave it at that. The evidence is there, you just have to be willing to interpret it.

You have literally made that interpretation all by yourself. In my 20 years of reading comics I have never heard that interpretation of that scene by anyone. And it doesn't even make any consistency with the rest of the comic.

The joker is literally mocking the fact he didn't have the nerve to kill him.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cole436

You have literally made that interpretation all by yourself. In my 20 years of reading comics I have never heard that interpretation of that scene by anyone. And it doesn't even make any consistency with the rest of the comic.

The joker is literally mocking the fact he didn't have the nerve to kill him.

That's fine that you aren't reading that interpretation of the events but just because you didn't figure it out then it must not exist? Give it a break and deal with the fact that some people have read that as Batman killing the Joker for the last 30 years.

Grant Morrison thinks that Batman killed the Joker at the end of the Killing Joke. I guess he's a moron too.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

That's fine that you aren't reading that interpretation of the events but just because you didn't figure it out then it must not exist? Give it a break and deal with the fact that some people have read that as Batman killing the Joker for the last 30 years.

Grant Morrison thinks that Batman killed the Joker at the end of the Killing Joke. I guess he's a moron too.

When you state an ambiguous interpretation as fact, that's problematic to a conversation. The page itself states that the character is alive, that Batman did not kill him, and that he mocks him for not killing him.

If you started the conversation with "this is my interpretation" or "I find the scene ambiguous" then yes, we could discuss that, but you're treating people who read the scene in what is more logical and straightforward (because it's what was actually shown to the viewer), and one that makes more sense in the context of the story as wrong, and it really doesn't work.

And while your strawman of Morrison has no bearing on this discussion, I don't think Grant is an idiot. I just think he's wrong. Check section 3-4.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

OK well either way I think they are both pretty common theories about Batman killing the joker. I wasn't trying to pull a fast one. I was intentionally putting forward a different opinion. And if you're so literal that you're reading the scripts to these comic books in order to interpret them all I have to say is you need to open your mind and it will be a lot more fun.

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

OK well either way I think they are both pretty common theories about Batman killing the joker. I wasn't trying to pull a fast one. I was intentionally putting forward a different opinion. And if you're so literal that you're reading the scripts to these comic books in order to interpret them all I have to say is you need to open your mind and it will be a lot more fun.

When the characters say:

"Voices calling me a killer... I wish I was.."
"the moment was perfect and you didn't have the nerve"
"Paralysis... Really... Just a few more ounces of pressure"

None of those read to me like Batman killed this character. I think it takes some leaps in logic to read it as a conversation happening in Bruce's mind.

I read the scripts not because I want to suck the fun out, but because the artists meaning in the story is interesting to me.

So my point still stands, in canon (outside of some ambiguous theory) Batman has never killed his enemies and for him to do so in the movie is wildly out of character.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Cole436

When the characters say:

"Voices calling me a killer... I wish I was.."
"the moment was perfect and you didn't have the nerve"
"Paralysis... Really... Just a few more ounces of pressure"

None of those read to me like Batman killed this character. I think it takes some leaps in logic to read it as a conversation happening in Bruce's mind.

I read the scripts not because I want to suck the fun out, but because the artists meaning in the story is interesting to me.

So my point still stands, in canon (outside of some ambiguous theory) Batman has never killed his enemies and for him to do so in the movie is wildly out of character.

You know that 20 post tangent aside I actually agree with your overall assessment. Batman doesn't kill. It's a major tenet of the character. I think that Snyder has made two movies now where he has totally screwed up some of the major characterizations of DCs major characters.

[djsFlames]

It's bad.

[dammage79]

Watched it today as I had nothing better to do. I will say that I am not an avid DC comic follower so this take is purely from a film watching perspective.

- Build up was too slow, first part of the movie was lame for me.
- Did not like Eisenbergs take on Luthor. Just too Jesse Eisenberg for me I guess. I liked Zombieland, I liked American Ultra, I liked a couple others but he is no Lex Luthor.
- Affleck was actually okay, he surpassed my expectaions of what he would be able to do with Batman and actually made the movie better by being in it. Thats high praise as I am not generally a fan of his work. Really nailed a lot of things.
- Dream Sequences blew IMO. But I suppose there's reasoning behind them. Just didn't like them. I'll jump on the side of being generally over with the gazillion takes on Wayne Family history. Even to casual fans this should be common knowledge.
- Worst part of the movie? "Martha". Not Diane Lane, it's the name, the weight behind the name. The whole set up was Uber terrible.
- Loved the Batmobile and Batwing, bat tech is honestly my favorite part of DC, thus making Batman my favorite DC character. This movie was no different.
- I was hesitant about Gal Gadot doing Wonder Woman, but she was great.
- I have some common sense plot issues with the movie. Just reaffrims for me that people are stupid in movies just like in real life.

Spoiler!

So the lovely citizens of the city see the crashed ship powering up again, oh! lets gather around it again and try to see whats going on! Not like the last time when this thing was active didn't wipe out thousands of lives and tens of city blocks of skyscrapers, no we won't GTFO, we'll rubberneck until the bitter end, idiots. Whats that? A giant monster? Lets fly super close in our helicopter to catch picture of this! And oh look, he just handed Supes his arse, better stick around! Lessons never learned.

- Was Holly hunter not a waste of a role? Really too bad.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cole436

When the characters say:

"Voices calling me a killer... I wish I was.."
"the moment was perfect and you didn't have the nerve"
"Paralysis... Really... Just a few more ounces of pressure"

None of those read to me like Batman killed this character. I think it takes some leaps in logic to read it as a conversation happening in Bruce's mind.

I read the scripts not because I want to suck the fun out, but because the artists meaning in the story is interesting to me.

So my point still stands, in canon (outside of some ambiguous theory) Batman has never killed his enemies and for him to do so in the movie is wildly out of character.

TDKR is also not canon for the main Batman storyline. It's a separate universe in the multi verse.

[Strange Brew]

As I have said I enjoyed the movie quite a bit but I can certainly see its flaws. The 2nd weekend box office has got to be disappointing and I hope it does not imperil the studio's plans for the DC Universe, but instead makes them focus on sharper scripts and more character development.

Maybe the dumbest thing about the movie was how they introduced the other heroes. Clicking on a file on the computer. About the laziest intro I can think of and they should not have bothered.

I think my 13 year old son preferred Zootopia.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think my 13 year old son preferred Zootopia.

SB, my 10 yr old wants to see it.


What are your thoughts on age appropriateness?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

SB, my 10 yr old wants to see it.


What are your thoughts on age appropriateness?

I took my just turned 11 year old daughter as well and she was fine with it. It is a little dark and violent but nothing they couldn't handle and she can be a little sensitive. There are a few deaths/killings but only one is graphic that I can remember. For some reason, Lois Lane sits naked in a bathtub near the beginning. You don't really see anything but seemed gratuitous.

I think any 10 year old will enjoy watching Supes and Batman duke it out.

Zootopia is really good BTW.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I think my 13 year old son preferred Zootopia.

I'm 28 and I think I might have preferred Zootopia.

Stupid terrible Lex Luthor & Doomsday.