Western clout?

[Cheese]

For the first time, the combined population of British Columbia and Alberta has surpassed the number of people living in Quebec, growth that could translate into more Western political influence.
A report released Wednesday by Statistics Canada estimates that B.C. and Alberta have 7,686,215 people between them. Quebec had slightly less, at 7,651,531.


The question is...can it actually be combined to some usefulness, or are the two provinces too different to make it matter??


Clout

[GrrlGoalie33]

It's never going to matter. In the political realm, Ontario and Quebec are always going to be the center of Canada.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Cheese

The question is...can it actually be combined to some usefulness, or are the two provinces too different to make it matter??

I think BC and Alberta are too different, politically speaking, to get some kind of "western bloc" in the HOC. I think the agendas of the two provinces are completely different as well. I mean, go to downtown Vancouver and visit the weed cafes, I could never imagine Calgary being that liberal any time soon.

[Flash Walken]

Single Transferable Vote would do much more to counter western alienation than simple population increases.

No one seems to want that, though.

[Shawnski]

75 MP's for Quebec. 64 for BC and AB. Too much of a disparity to hold a "Rep by Pop" formula true for regions this large.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Single Transferable Vote would do much more to counter western alienation than simple population increases.

No one seems to want that, though.

Yeah, I agree. STV would really help thwart Western Alienation. I think the problem is that too many people don't understand it.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Frankster

It's never going to matter. In the political realm, Ontario and Quebec are always going to be the center of Canada.

It will matter if the government re-distributes the seats. If the Conservatives can get elected for another term, it is a possibility.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

Yeah, I agree. STV would really help thwart Western Alienation. I think the problem is that too many people don't understand it.

I disagree. I think the main problem with that is that none of the existing 4 major parties really want STV. The NDP does, but not at the potential loss of seats. As long as none of them want to see it, it will never become an issue, and if it never becomes an issue, no one will discuss it.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I disagree. I think the main problem with that is that none of the existing 4 major parties really want STV. The NDP does, but not at the potential loss of seats. As long as none of them want to see it, it will never become an issue, and if it never becomes an issue, no one will discuss it.

I don't know if it has absolutely everything to do with the parties. Last year BC put the STV question on the ballots during the provincial election and it didn't get enough support. It is a pretty confusing system, and although it would ensure that every vote counted people still voted against it.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I don't know if it has absolutely everything to do with the parties. Last year BC put the STV question on the ballots during the provincial election and it didn't get enough support. It is a pretty confusing system, and although it would ensure that every vote counted people still voted against it.

It didn't get enough support because the NDP painted it up to be some sort of demon worshipping system created by Satan to increase his power.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It didn't get enough support because the NDP painted it up to be some sort of demon worshipping system created by Satan to increase his power.

I agree, but it should also be noted that no other major political party gave it so much as a breath as it laid there with empty lungs.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I agree, but it should also be noted that no other major political party gave it so much as a breath as it laid there with empty lungs.

But it almost did pass in BC, it needed 2/3 and it got close to 65% if I remember correctly.

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It didn't get enough support because the NDP painted it up to be some sort of demon worshipping system created by Satan to increase his power.

Federally, the NDP would benefit the most from some sort of proportional representation system (and the Greens - which makes me not want to support it) and as Flash said, the NDP is the only party that actually has it on their agenda. I personally do not see how the NDP by itself could influence 65% of the voting populace of BC into not voting for it.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

(and the Greens - which makes me not want to support it)

You know, because environmental accountability is so damn terrible.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You know, because environmental accountability is so damn terrible.

No, a political party with very bad environmental policies under the auspices of a green party is so damn terrible.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

But it almost did pass in BC, it needed 2/3 and it got close to 65% if I remember correctly.



Federally, the NDP would benefit the most from some sort of proportional representation system (and the Greens - which makes me not want to support it) and as Flash said, the NDP is the only party that actually has it on their agenda. I personally do not see how the NDP by itself could influence 65% of the voting populace of BC into not voting for it.

I'm really not an authority on STV, but I've talked to Hakan about it previously, so hopefully he stops by for a post or two in this thread. I don't feel I should really comment until I look up my notes.

buuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttt...................I DO know one of the reasons the NDP isn't really that enthusiastic about it is that the green vote could really affect the NDP, more adversely than any other party. The NDP receives a lot of support because of their Environmental platform, something that until last election really had no rival. The greens had good intentions, but nothing substantial in terms of a platform. Now they are more organized, and while I wouldn't vote for them, despite seeing myself as somewhat of an environmentalist, I can certainly understand NDP hesitation to include the green party as a viable political entity.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

No, a political party with very bad environmental policies under the auspices of a green party is so damn terrible.

Care to explain what is wrong with their policies?

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm really not an authority on STV, but I've talked to Hakan about it previously, so hopefully he stops by for a post or two in this thread. I don't feel I should really comment until I look up my notes.

buuuuuuuuuuuttttttttttt...................I DO know one of the reasons the NDP isn't really that enthusiastic about it is that the green vote could really affect the NDP, more adversely than any other party. The NDP receives a lot of support because of their Environmental platform, something that until last election really had no rival. The greens had good intentions, but nothing substantial in terms of a platform. Now they are more organized, and while I wouldn't vote for them, despite seeing myself as somewhat of an environmentalist, I can certainly understand NDP hesitation to include the green party as a viable political entity.

Ah, that makes sense (see my earlier post). I too am an environmentalist that wouldn't vote for the Greens, but as it stands about 20% of Canadian voters vote NDP but they don't have close to 20% of the seats in the HOC. Tough call.

I remember learning about this in a poli sci class about the Canadian State last year and being tested on it. Even after a lecture completely about STV a lot of people did not understand it. I am not even sure if I completely understand it.

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Care to explain what is wrong with their policies?

I actually did a huge research paper on this last year. From what I recall the worst thing about the Green party's policies are the lack of them. This probably has a lot to do with the party being in it's infancy.

They don't support Kyoto, that was another thing. I also remember reading that David Suzuki does not agree with Green policies and that the NDP is the more environmentally conscience party, which I take into account greatly as I think he is one of the most influential people in regards to environmentalism. Hmmmmm, what else... For the most part, the Green party's policies are right-wing, check this out:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.p...40617132254104

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Red Mile Style

I actually did a huge research paper on this last year. From what I recall the worst thing about the Green party's policies are the lack of them. This probably has a lot to do with the party being in it's infancy.

They don't support Kyoto, that was another thing. I also remember reading that David Suzuki does not agree with Green policies and that the NDP is the more environmentally conscience party, which I take into account greatly as I think he is one of the most influential people in regards to environmentalism. Hmmmmm, what else... For the most part, the Green party's policies are right-wing, check this out:

http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.p...40617132254104

That article is a joke and quotes no credible sources. I already knew the Greens were to the right but their environmental policies are a lot more realistically implementable than the NDPs. The Greens actually provide incentives for corporations to stop polluting as opposed to the NDPs thought process of "tax them anyway we can."

[Red Mile Style]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That article is a joke and quotes no credible sources. I already knew the Greens were to the right but their environmental policies are a lot more realistically implementable than the NDPs. The Greens actually provide incentives for corporations to stop polluting as opposed to the NDPs thought process of "tax them anyway we can."

If you could provide proof rather than just propaganda, I would more than likely listen and agree, but the fact is, until I get proof of anything you say (and believe me, I've looked for it) your post is nothing more than party rhetoric that is PR related more than politically motivated. Environmentalism is my number one priority when it comes to picking a political party, and I would not just go blindly into a party just because their name implies environmentalism.

Here are a couple links that I found just on google that prove my point, I can find more if you want.

http://www.hour.ca/news/news.aspx?iIDArticle=10242

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Suzuki