The New American Politics thread

[peter12]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

1) I'm sure you're referencing abortion here, which covers 3% of all PP services. Kasich's family has money and power, and if his daughters needed an abortion, they wouldn't be forced to turn to PP for it.

2) Kasich's daughters also wouldn't have need for the other 97% of PP's services, because their father is a wealthy politician and has access to government sponsored, high-quality healthcare. So for their cancer screenings and annual checkups and birth control, they can go to a regular OB/GYN. But for low income families, there are no other options for those services without PP.

Look at Texas, at the vast dearth of accessible women's healthcare in the state since they defunded PP. The defunding of PP closed lots of clinics that never even offered abortions, so the GOP's message of we're just worried about women's health! by adding unnecessary restrictions to PP meant that a lot of other clinics were unable to provide treatment to the women who need that help the most.

You can disagree with abortion, fine. But PP does incredible work, work that protects a huge group of women who otherwise do not have access to that care.

I'm not challenging you at all, I just find this very interesting. Would you post some corollary sources? If what you are saying is true, then mass defunding of PP clinics is a travesty.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm not challenging you at all, I just find this very interesting. Would you post some corollary sources? If what you are saying is true, then mass defunding of PP clinics is a travesty.

What Texas has done, in regards to abortion providers, is require them to meet certain standards and criteria, which effectively shuts them down.

Some of the required criteria and standards, such as requiring the performing doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, may have some merit. Others, such as mandating the minimum width of a hallway, likely do not.

Here's some discussion about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Senate_Bill_5

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-s...ffer-abortions

In regards to defunding Planned Parenthood generally and its after-effects, see here:

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/28/464728...anning-clinics

[Senator Clay Davis]

New Wisconsin polling has Bernie up 4 and Cruz up 10. I would think the total Trump meltdown to get himself out of the race (probably intentionally) is coming soon given what a circus his campaign now is. Starting to look like Cruz will become the candidate who will have the most delegates besides Trump at a convention, making him to me the heavy favorite now to be the nominee.

[troutman]

Trump rally in WI on the 29th - protester says old Trump supporter groped her, punches old man, then girl gets pepper sprayed by another Trump supporter.

https://local.nixle.com/alert/5615856/

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by troutman

Trump rally in WI on the 29th - protester says old Trump supporter groped her, punches old man, then girl gets pepper sprayed by another Trump supporter.

https://local.nixle.com/alert/5615856/

From "Feel the Bern" to "Feel the Burn". But seriously the whole video seems to show she punched someone else first, then got maced. I still don't get why people are going to Trump rally's specifically to incite incidents and to create scenes. Trump is on self-destruct mode right now and is clearly looking for the exit door so he doesn't need any help getting out now. But going to these events to create a scene doesn't hurt Trump and more than likely helps him.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Yeah Trump is absolutely looking for the exit door now. Just called the Geneva Convention "a problem", and an hour or so ago should women should be "held accountable" for getting abortions before totally flip-flopping and saying it's doctors who should be held accountable a few minutes ago. He's entered the "Time to say all kinds of #### and hopefully I finally drop in the polls so I can finally leave this boring race" phase.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Trump is on self-destruct mode right now and is clearly looking for the exit door so he doesn't need any help getting out now.

Where are you getting these indications? He seems convinced that he's going to win the Presidency much more than he's about to drop out.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Where are you getting these indications? He seems convinced that he's going to win the Presidency much more than he's about to drop out.

I made the mistake of finally convincing myself he was for real. But like Trump, I've flip flopped (though in a few weeks and not hours like he did). When you really think about it, is rich ass Donald Trump gonna spend his final years doing politics? I said it last night but right now he's OD'ing on his own ego, he's never felt higher in his life. Once he's President it's not fun anymore like running is. Policy meetings, diplomacy....nah, he's got no interest in that. He's spent very little and probably made some money selling those hats.

Plus, he has amped up the insane #### he's saying to a new level the past few days. It seems to me he's basically trying to alienate every group he can, and while his core is entrenched with him, he's gotten to the point where it is worth pondering if the disgusting Ted Cruz would be better. If Kasich gets out soon I think Cruz easily wins out, but that's what Trump would like is for Cruz to overtake him, or to lose a brokered convention. I think he's trying to self-sabotage his campaign.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by peter12

I'm not challenging you at all, I just find this very interesting. Would you post some corollary sources? If what you are saying is true, then mass defunding of PP clinics is a travesty.

There was a fantastic segment on NPR that I heard back in January. I don't know if this article covers all of it, but it looks like it does the job.

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/28/464728...anning-clinics

Healthcare for low income Texan women is a disaster now because the GOP only saw to the we need to stop Planned Parenthood at all costs, disregarding all of the other people it would affect.

A clinic who solely provides abortion in pill form does not need to have hallways large enough for two surgical tables to pass. They're rules solely meant to make clinics shut down because they cannot possibly afford the changes they need to make in order to remain open.

You cannot at once claim the government has "no role in providing healthcare" when these laws were passed under the guise of "protecting women's health."

[driveway]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

Some of the required criteria and standards, such as requiring the performing doctor to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital, may have some merit.

This particular requirement has been put in place in nine States (Alabama, Kansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota, Oklahoma,Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin) and the law has subsequently been struck down or stayed by the courts in five of them (Wisconsin, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama).

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It seems to me he's basically trying to alienate every group he can

Done. Even white men and non-college whites now. Congrats I guess.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ven-white-men/

[FlameOn]

Interesting read inside the investigation into the FBI's Clinton email investigation, how Clinton has been mishandling processes and documents since 1996 and how staffers were ordered to obstruct investigators as they looked into the matter.

http://time.com/4276988/jim-comey-hillary-clinton/

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Yeah Trump is absolutely looking for the exit door now. Just called the Geneva Convention "a problem", and an hour or so ago should women should be "held accountable" for getting abortions before totally flip-flopping and saying it's doctors who should be held accountable a few minutes ago. He's entered the "Time to say all kinds of #### and hopefully I finally drop in the polls so I can finally leave this boring race" phase.

I see so many people freaking out about this Trump anti-abortion stuff right now on social media and I'm baffled.

First, since when has the Republican candidate for president NOT been all about outlawing abortion? This isn't new, they've been banging this drum forever. I'm not sure why it's surprising that Trump would take this position.

Second, people are REALLY freaking out that he said women should be punished for having abortions. Again, he's proposing that abortion be illegal. Obviously I disagree with that, but if you understand that that's what he wants to see happen... what do you expect? They're going to outlaw abortion, but if you break said law, no punishment will befall you? I guess maybe people are saying "even if you outlawed it there would only be legal consequences for providers, none for people who get the procedure"? I mean okay, but it's certainly not surprising to me that someone who proposes outlawing a particular act also thinks people who break that law on purpose would be punished.

Of all the crap Trump's done and said it just baffles me that this is causing the stir it's causing. It's entirely expected from where I sit.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Well Dem supporters being pissed at him is to be expected. It's the GOP that's really pissed off with him over this, and many of the other things he's said in this election. Because rather than the usual GOP tactic of a thinly veiled attempt to mask banning abortion as something else (public health, pro-life etc..), Trump is coming out with the real GOP position on why the want to ban abortion: To punish women. So he's broken the rules of the GOP: Don't actually say it, be more subtle.

I'd also say the reaction is more about him having possibly 3 different positions on one issue within a few hours of each other. It's pretty much the perfect summation that Trump is just spewing a bunch of nonsensical verbal diarrhea, that he has no grasp of anything, that his supporters don't care about any positions except the wall and Muslims. It shows how easy he'll be to destroy in a debate too. But as I've said he's looking to get out at this point, so I'd expect him to say even more insane #### in the days and weeks to come.

[2Stonedbirds]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Interesting read inside the investigation into the FBI's Clinton email investigation, how Clinton has been mishandling processes and documents since 1996 and how staffers were ordered to obstruct investigators as they looked into the matter.

http://time.com/4276988/jim-comey-hillary-clinton/

Apparently the FBI wants a chat with Hillary and some of her aides have been granted immunity. Not sure if that means an indictment is forthcoming but the optics alone will hurt her.

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/20...e-a-breakdown/

[AltaGuy]

Every time I visit the Washington Times site I feel like I'm gaining entry into some alternative universe.

[Swift]

I don’t pay a ton of attention to this stuff but from what I read yesterday, the standard belief for anti-abortion campaigners is that the woman should never be punished, only the person performing the procedure.

From here - http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/mar/30/us-election-2016-live-clinton-sanders-trump-cruz-kasich-campaign?page=with:block-56fc5be6e4b0c9ed7992f83b#liveblog-navigation

Based on the amount of anti-abortion advocates who are coming out against Trump’s claim that he would seek punishment for women who access abortion if outlawed, it’s unsurprising how quickly the GOP candidate flipped his entire position and said that doctors performing abortions should be punished - not women who undergo them.
Marjorie Dannenfelser, president of the national anti-abortion group Susan B. Anthony List, said in a statement: “We have never advocated, in any context, for the punishment of women who undergo abortion.
“As a convert to the pro-life movement, Mr. Trump sees the reality of the horror of abortion – the destruction of an innocent human life – which is legal in our country up until the moment of birth. But let us be clear: punishment is solely for the abortionist who profits off of the destruction of one life and the grave wounding of another,” said Dannenfelser.
NBC News reporter Ed Demaria posted transcripts of two Meet the Press interviews from previous elections with Mick Huckabee and Rick Santorum, both anti-abortion candidates, who decried punishment for women.

Even anti-abortion groups are coming out against Donald Trump’s comments that women who choose abortions should be punished if abortion is outlawed.
“Mr. Trump’s comment today is completely out of touch with the pro-life movement and even more with women who have chosen such a sad thing as abortion,” said Jeanne Mancini, President of March for Life, the biggest anti-abortion event in the world.
“Being pro-life means wanting what is best for the mother and the baby. Women who choose abortion often do so in desperation and then deeply regret such a decision. No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion. This is against the very nature of what we are about. We invite a woman who has gone down this route to consider paths to healing, not punishment.”

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ahh yes, his plan to ban Muslims is actually doubling as his plan to fight ISIS. Because after all once Trump bans them, they'll be doing everything they can then to get into the US...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

I don’t pay a ton of attention to this stuff but from what I read yesterday, the standard belief for anti-abortion campaigners is that the woman should never be punished, only the person performing the procedure.

From here - http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2016/mar/30/us-election-2016-live-clinton-sanders-trump-cruz-kasich-campaign?page=with:block-56fc5be6e4b0c9ed7992f83b#liveblog-navigation

Trump is breaking the secret pact that you don't let on about the jail time for pregnant girls until after they get abortion illegal.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I think this just shows how irrelevant polling really is for a general right now, but PublicPolicyPolling had a national come out today showing Kasich beats both Hillary and Bernie in a general. So yeah....not sure what you take from that other than everyone likes Kasich because he's not Trump or Cruz.