Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice [SPOILERS THREAD]

[Harry Lime]

I had to go and look up on Urban Encyclopedia that "Nintendo" was a euphemism for marijuana. Wii = weed. And then go back and read some of this thread again for the world to make sense.

Anyway, everything is funnier when read by an Australian.

NSFW!

I don't agree with everything he said, but he does have one point that hasn't been brought up yet, that is interesting.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

I had to go and look up on Urban Encyclopedia that "Nintendo" was a euphemism for marijuana. Wii = weed. And then go back and read some of this thread again for the world to make sense.

Anyway, everything is funnier when read by an Australian.

NSFW!

I don't agree with everything he said, but he does have one point that hasn't been brought up yet, that is interesting.

No, we were actually talking about video games.

Did you not know what Nintendo was...?

[SuperMatt18]

Kinda gets a big "meh" from me. Wasn't amazing and wasn't bad, it's just average.

I liked Affleck, Gadot, and Cavill as Superman. Think they really got the grizzled Batman right and think Gadot was great as Diana Prince and Wonder Woman. Think the Wonder Woman cameo would have been better received if they didn't ruin the money shot in the trailer. Another Issue I have is with Cavill as Clark Kent, there is nothing that separates the characters. Kent needs to be that kinda funny, awkward journalist. Not the bad ass hard hitting journalist.

The biggest problem with this movie is the villains though. You never really understand what is driving Luthor in his obsession, and he was written terribly. He comes off more as Joker/Riddler/Luthor hybrid then the true stone cold businessman version of Luthor. Smallville really got that character right.

Doomsday wasn't as bad but they needed him to be more then just the monster. He needed to have some cunning and smarts as well. I did like how they had him evolve and regenerate in real time though, nice touch.

Overall I see a lot of promise in Affleck, Gadot and Cavill, it just needs a better director and they need to stop trying to play catch up with marvel and focus on just creating their own universe.

Don't mind the Flash cameo of they end up going the Injustice multiverse route, opens up lots of opportunities and easy to look past in this movie.

[Harry Lime]

Just watched the Kevin Smith review. There is one thing that I will agree with him on most definitely, and that is his 'Parademon Theory'. It doesn't matter how much might have gone wrong, or how much nitpicking goes on. (or Snyderpicking, which is much like megapicking) The fact remains that there were a few moments which are going to stand out as pushing this movie into the realm of 'good' rather than 'bad', and maintain rewatchability.

Among them, we got to see parademons. That's a 5% boost over RT right there. Wonder Woman, another 5%, Alfred 5%, Batfleck 5%.... you're wandering over 50% really quickly just on fan moments.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

See, this is something I've never understood. Is his disguise all that absurd? I recall seeing a video of Henry Cavill walking around a busy public square, with a MASSIVE Superman poster behind him. He was wearing the glasses, and no one recognized him.

I thought about this in one of the Spiderman movies, where Spidey's on a CTrain equivalent, and takes off his mask. An entire train full of people saw him, and not one recognized him.

I consider it in terms of looking around the city I live in. Calgary's got a modest population of a million plus. I used to take transit every single day, and I wouldn't know or recognize anyone on the train. I've had friends say that they saw me somewhere, and I was looking right at them and didn't see them (and it's happened the other way, too).

People really do see what they want to see. And in a city of 11 million (Metropolis' purported population), it's even easier to see.

Also, have you never had a friend who always wore glasses, and then took them off at some point, and you were all "Whoa, you look so different?" Maybe it's just me, as I wore glasses for years, when I switched to contacts, folks were quite surprised by the change, remarking how different I looked.

I don't see Clark's disguise as absurd. It's occasionally stretched into improbable, but certainly it's not that much of a surprise to me that it works (almost all of the time.)

The problem in my eyes is that Superman would be hyper-known. This isn't Bill from accounting...

Even on a Calgary scale, I don't think it would work. Can you recognize this guy?

[GreenLantern]

Of course I can, don't be ridiculous, that's Steven Page.

Hrmm I was reading a post over at reddit today and it made me think about that Martha scene again. Perhaps it isn't the fact that their mothers have the same name that gets Batman all messed up and we shouldn't look at it as the Step Brothers moment that has been thrown around. I think he is more wigged out because Martha was the last thing his Dad said before he died, that was literally the last word he heard his Dad say and I imagine it has replayed over and over in his head a billion times since then.

So when Superman is literally about to die and he's calling out for Martha, Bruce is freaked out, and he is standing over top of him with this kryptonite spear, maybe he looks at Superman and see's his Dad and then sees himself as the guy standing over his dad with the gun (spear). What has he become? At what cost? If I look at it from that angle it adds some depth to the scene and helps make more sense. As someone who has lost a parent at a young age I can tell you that it never leaves you alone, some days it is at the forefront of your mind even (in my case) 24 years later. I couldn't imagine the impact it would have being such a severe event like Bruce's, so it is completely believable that it would have such a profound affect on him if it was in fact interpreted this way.

Maybe this helped Bruce look at Superman as Clark, as a human and he realized what was really at stake here when Clark tells him that Luthor is going to kill his Mother. Maybe he thinks back to when his Martha was shot in front of him and he was completely helpless, but this time he isn't, this time he is in control and he can save her. Just a thought I had, but I will keep this in mind the next time I see that scene and I think it will make a difference.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Of course I can, don't be ridiculous, that's Steven Page.

Hrmm I was reading a post over at reddit today and it made me think about that Martha scene again. Perhaps it isn't the fact that their mothers have the same name that gets Batman all messed up and we shouldn't look at it as the Step Brothers moment that has been thrown around. I think he is more wigged out because Martha was the last thing his Dad said before he died, that was literally the last word he heard his Dad say and I imagine it has replayed over and over in his head a billion times since then.

So when Superman is literally about to die and he's calling out for Martha, Bruce is freaked out, and he is standing over top of him with this kryptonite spear, maybe he looks at Superman and see's his Dad and then sees himself as the guy standing over his dad with the gun (spear). What has he become? At what cost? If I look at it from that angle it adds some depth to the scene and helps make more sense. As someone who has lost a parent at a young age I can tell you that it never leaves you alone, some days it is at the forefront of your mind even (in my case) 24 years later. I couldn't imagine the impact it would have being such a severe event like Bruce's, so it is completely believable that it would have such a profound affect on him if it was in fact interpreted this way.

Maybe this helped Bruce look at Superman as Clark, as a human and he realized what was really at stake here when Clark tells him that Luthor is going to kill his Mother. Maybe he thinks back to when his Martha was shot in front of him and he was completely helpless, but this time he isn't, this time he is in control and he can save her. Just a thought I had, but I will keep this in mind the next time I see that scene and I think it will make a difference.

^ I thought that much was pretty obvious just from the scene itself?

If someone's analysis was really "They stopped fighting because their moms have the same name!" that person is incredibly simple-minded and probably shouldn't be attempting to analyze film or story or anything, really.

[ComixZone]

Perhaps it isn't the fact that their mothers have the same name that gets Batman all messed up and we shouldn't look at it as the Step Brothers moment that has been thrown around.

Of course it's not as simple as their mothers having the same name. Anyone who takes that scene literally and views the shared name of their mothers as the reason why Batman stopped fighting...well, they have a 6 year old's grasp on the complexity of storytelling.

That is to say, the internet is filled with people spewing opinions on things they don't understand.

...and in other news, a crime spree has swept across Gotham, and water is wet.

[GreenLantern]

Hrmm interesting, so if it so blatantly obvious then why are so many people viewing it that way? Including many posters on this board. I knew there was more to it than just the names but I don't think I fully appreciated the complexity of it all, I actually want to see that scene again now. I thought Affleck's reaction was great.

I am looking forward to seeing some fan edits.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Hrmm interesting, so if it so blatantly obvious then why are so many people viewing it that way? Including many posters on this board. I knew there was more to it than just the names but I don't think I fully appreciated the complexity of it all, I actually want to see that scene again now. I thought Affleck's reaction was great.

I am looking forward to seeing some fan edits.

Because...

It was clear from the start, years ago, that people were ready to hate this movie before ever seeing it. It wasn't a surprise that people were nit-picking it hours after it was released too.

It's useless to argue things with people that fundamentally don't understand (and don't want to understand) what was happening.

Along similar lines, I've seen TONS of people say "What?! Batman shoots people with GUNS in this movie?!?" -- Yes, sort of -- but if you were paying attention and not looking for reasons to irrationally hate it, you'd have noticed that was during a post-apocalyptic vision of the future, where it makes sense that Batman has likely abandoned his previous morality. He doesn't shoot anybody with a gun in the actual, non-dream timeline of the movie (unless you count when he shoots the guys flamethrower tank, which he did to avert that scary future timeline).'

And also, to answer your question more directly, people just aren't very smart. I hadn't thought of it quite as in-depth as your post presented, but for an adult to analyze that scene with such elementary surface level thinking (Their moms have the same name! That's it!) shows they just aren't particularly bright.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Hrmm interesting, so if it so blatantly obvious then why are so many people viewing it that way? Including many posters on this board. I knew there was more to it than just the names but I don't think I fully appreciated the complexity of it all, I actually want to see that scene again now. I thought Affleck's reaction was great.

I am looking forward to seeing some fan edits.

I'm with you. I've seen this argument made a bunch of times and I find it odd. I understand making the point to be funny, but to make it and have it be a serious complaint is strange. It's the same as the "Batman shoots people!" complaint... it's a dream sequence. That's also the scene where superman lasers a few people in half.

[SuperMatt18]

I thought it was pretty blatantly obvious.

I may be mistaken but didn't Batman flashback to the night his parents were killed the second Superman said the name "Martha".

Personally thought they made it pretty clear that Superman saying Martha tied directly to Bruce the night his parents died when his dad's last breath was Martha. That spooked him and caused him to see that his actions were wrong.

Never for a second did I think "Oh look he stopped trying to kill him because their moms have the same name".

[polak]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I thought it was pretty blatantly obvious.

I may be mistaken but didn't Batman flashback to the night his parents were killed the second Superman said the name "Martha".

Personally thought they made it pretty clear that Superman saying Martha tied directly to Bruce the night his parents died when his dad's last breath was Martha. That spooked him and caused him to see that his actions were wrong.

Never for a second did I think "Oh look he stopped trying to kill him because their moms have the same name".

Both are incredibly weak story wise. The difference in thinking one or the other is negligible.

Saw the movie yesterday and obviously went in with super low expectations and I will say it exceeded those. The story was as basic as it gets so I'm not going to get into that. The acting and action scenes were well done and I liked Batman and Wonder Woman although I have quite a bit of gripe with their character development, but I'll get back to that.

The worst part of this movie is the cheesy ass cinematography, music, and tone. Just awful. Takes itself waaaaay to seriously and tries too hard to be epic but in my opinion it falls flat on it's face. I'm not saying that this movie shouldn't have had an "epic" tone, of course it should have but it just wasn't well done.

The second worse part of the movie was the dream sequences. Honestly, seemed like a cop out to me. Seems like whoever wrote the script wanted to convey all of these fears and emotions but couldn't think of how to do it within the confines of the story so they just added stupid dreams to equation and then repeated it like 4 times. Seriously, if you just stuck random dreams into a story you wrote in sixth grade because you couldn't work the point into the story, you'd fail. If you took out the dreams, I'd probably enjoy this movie 10 times more.

I also thought the dialogue was quite thin and like I said, I don't think Batman and Wonder Woman were developed nearly enough for me to care about them. If the dreams were supposed to do this then fail. I think it was more a symptom of them making this movie before the independent Batman and Wonder Woman movies. I think that was the crux of this movie and that decision made it pretty much impossible for this movie to be genuinely good.

So now that the bad is out of the way, I really liked seeing the Man of Steel final fight through the eyes of a civilian on the ground. I think it would be cool if Marvel made a movie about a regular soldier caught in all of these battles but not have his story actually related to the Avengers. Just like a grounded view of a normal soldiers life criss-crossing with with all this crazy superhero nonsense. I also liked the teasing of the other JL members and to be honest, I think a proper JL movie could be really sweet. I like the more serious and grounded tone vs. Marvels universe, I just think the "epic" tone needs to be done by director who knows how to pull it off properly (ahem Nolan?) and this movie should have come way later in the development but I guess DC was in a tight spot cause an independent Wonder Woman movie would probably bomb.

Either way, hard to write a real review of it since I lowered my expectations so much but yeah.... 5/10. MEH.

[polak]

Side note: I think Affleck's Batman movies will be sick! I like the new Alfred as well.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by polak

Side note: I think Affleck's Batman movies will be sick! I like the new Alfred as well.

The Wonder Woman and Batman movies have me excited. And based on those little teasers, I'm actually pretty excited about Cyborg too! I'm a little on the fence about Flash and Aquaman for now.

[GreenLantern]

Actually nevermind.

[FireGilbert]

I liked the Martha scene and thought it was a well done way to end the fight. Batman spent the movie saying Superman was not a "man" but in that moment realised he had very human emotions and they had more in common than Batman thought.

My only issue though is since when do people call their Mother by her first name? Superman should have been saying "save my Mom" not "save Martha".

[Harry Lime]

Batman : Hi, my name is Bruce, and I save Marthas.
Group : Hello, Bruce.
Batman : I used to do other things, but ever since I found out that a buddy of mine has a Mom named Martha, I've pretty much just been Martha saving.
Group Leader : That's ok. That's ok. Marthas need saving, too.
Batman : No, not other people and Marthas. Just Marthas.
Group Leader : Why?
Batman : Well, my mom's name was Martha.
Group : Ooooooohhhh......
Group Leader : (gesturing behind himself) And the helicopter?
Batman : It's a Marthacopter.

[killer_carlson]

Just got back from seeing it. Took my 8 and 6 year old daughters.

Movie was a popcorn flick setting up the Justice League. Ok. I get it. I enjoyed it for what it was. Pleasantly surprised at Batman and Alfred. I like Cavill and think Superman is a tough character to portrait.

But i'll also say this: when Wonder Women first showed up and saved Batman, my daughters were visibly pumped. One literally started clapping and the other jumped in excitement. That moment really hit home and will be my lasting takeaway from this film. There are so few female superheros that girls can get excited about. Black Widow, Scarlett Witch and Wonder Woman - maybe the Wasp?. It was pretty cool to have witnessed.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Just got back from seeing it. Took my 8 and 6 year old daughters.

Movie was a popcorn flick setting up the Justice League. Ok. I get it. I enjoyed it for what it was. Pleasantly surprised at Batman and Alfred. I like Cavill and think Superman is a tough character to portrait.

But i'll also say this: when Wonder Women first showed up and saved Batman, my daughters were visibly pumped. One literally started clapping and the other jumped in excitement. That moment really hit home and will be my lasting takeaway from this film. There are so few female superheros that girls can get excited about. Black Widow, Scarlett Witch and Wonder Woman - maybe the Wasp?. It was pretty cool to have witnessed.

Awesome, love to hear that. My 7 year old niece hasn't seen it yet but has seen the previews and she already informed my sister she wants to be Wonder Woman for Halloween next year. Glad this is working out for Gadot as I know she put a lot of work into preparing for this role.