Yeah I guess so. I think also with the 16-24 year old age group are more vocal because in the UK, you'll find significant higher hate crimes occurring to Muslims there than here.
It's so bad there that radical non-muslims attack anyone who remotely represents muslims. It's so bad that they even attack Sikh's, which isn't remotely connected to Muslims (aside from the headcovering/turban).
I love it when Muslims try the race card for their problems, London had 50 killed and over 700 injured in the 2005 bombings and the Muslim community's didn't shed a tear, crazy clerics blamed it publicly on lack of respect for sharia law, now there are some Muslim areas even the cops are afraid to go into and you can't see why there's some hate? If a bunch of redheads blew up some mosques how long before you start looking over your shoulder at someone with red hair?
Watch this and report back to me.
You or maybe your family before you came to western countries for a better life but for some reason some of you want to change our culture and laws to become just like the same craphole that they left.
I love it when Muslims try the race card for their problems, London had 50 killed and over 700 injured in the 2005 bombings and the Muslim community's didn't shed a tear, crazy clerics blamed it publicly on lack of respect for sharia law, now there are some Muslim areas even the cops are afraid to go into and you can't see why there's some hate? If a bunch of redheads blew up some mosques how long before you start looking over your shoulder at someone with red hair?
Watch this and report back to me.
You or maybe your family before you came to western countries for a better life but for some reason some of you want to change our culture and laws to become just like the same craphole that they left.
Lol once a racist bigot, always a racist bigot. I was born in Canada, my parents are from Tanzania. I already stated that I don't believe in the extremist views or sharia law.
Maybe you should go back to your country and should not infringe on native rights and their land. I can't believe your parents would do that to Native Americans.
To generalize me after the last few pages of what I've stated because I'm muslim is a clear indication that you're racist.
We have a fundamental disagreement here that we're not going to traverse if you believe this is the case.
Putting your fingers in your ears and yelling when a Muslim person is actually providing you with insight into their religion is definitely the fastest way to understand it.
You seem to have a fundamental disagreement with any suggestion that you are wrong, regardless of the information contained in that suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
... people still become apologists and toss out "Islamophobia" to just completely shut down valid criticisms.
Interesting that you have brought up the "liberal" tendency to do this multiple times. I wonder if you were to review your posts in comparison to say, Cliff's or Corsi's, and find the answer as to why you seem to experience this treatment regularly.
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Putting your fingers in your ears and yelling when a Muslim person is actually providing you with insight into their religion is definitely the fastest way to understand it.
You seem to have a fundamental disagreement with any suggestion that you are wrong, regardless of the information contained in that suggestion.
Interesting that you have brought up the "liberal" tendency to do this multiple times. I wonder if you were to review your posts in comparison to say, Cliff's or Corsi's, and find the answer as to why you seem to experience this treatment regularly.
Especially hearing it from a Muslim who disagrees with Sharia law and denounces extremism and radical Islam.
And then you have T@T who yells nonsense.
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I mean you could say all that. But if rejecting the ideas that religious law should be applied anywhere is me "putting my fingers in my ears" then guilty as charged.
As for the last comment, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say there. I bring up "liberal" because I find defence of these practices to be a betrayal of liberal ideals, which I tend to adhere to, because of the trump card of fearing being called a racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiggy77
Especially hearing it from a Muslim who disagrees with Sharia law and denounces extremism and radical Islam.
And then you have T@T who yells nonsense.
So what? You're a muslim who denounces extremism and then in another breath says "well it depends on what sharia law". Do you legitimately not see the disconnect there? How does one even react to that?
Extremist views don't require blowing up bombs and killing people.
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Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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I mean you could say all that. But if rejecting the ideas that religious law should be applied anywhere is me "putting my fingers in my ears" then guilty as charged.
As for the last comment, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say there. I bring up "liberal" because I find defence of these practices to be a betrayal of liberal ideals, which I tend to adhere to, because of the trump card of fearing being called a racist.
So what? You're a muslim who denounces extremism and then in another breath says "well it depends on what sharia law". Do you legitimately not see the disconnect there? How does one even react to that?
Extremist views don't require blowing up bombs and killing people.
Not calling you a racist by any means.
I am simply providing facts about a legal system. I think the disconnect is that when I refer to extremism, I refer to radical Islam. You're referring extremism as a strong belief in a religious system regardless of the various degrees that exist. Which means, you could say that the Alberta PC's or the Republicans are extremist. Which if that is your argument is that degree doesn't matter, then it makes sense to me what you're trying to say.
To generalize me after the last few pages of what I've stated because I'm muslim is a clear indication that you're racist.
Islam is not a race. T@T is certainly intolerant, and I could say some other less than complimentary things about him based on his posts (which I won't for fear of the moderators), but he's pretty equal-opportunity in terms of his oft-embarrassingly-put denunciation of all religion. So why jump to calling him a racist?
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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I am simply providing facts about a legal system. I think the disconnect is that when I refer to extremism, I refer to radical Islam. You're referring extremism as a strong belief in a religious system regardless of the various degrees that exist. Which means, you could say that the Alberta PC's or the USA governing system are extremist. Which if that is your argument, then it makes sense to me.
The Alberta PCs do not propose killing people for leaving the PC party, they do not advocate for the death of homosexuals and do not call for a system where women are subjugated and can be beaten. Nor do they point to a religious text as a source of law. Of course there are degrees, but once you've gone in for a theocracy, I think that's what Nik is saying is "radical".
I'm not sure much turns on the use of that term, though. Support for any version of religious law, imposed on society, is completely contrary to the secular values we consider important in Canada (and in other similar countries). Those values are quite obviously a better way to organize society.
I'm really not clear on what the difference in opinion is here, honestly.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Islam is not a race. T@T is certainly intolerant, and I could say some other less than complimentary things about him based on his posts (which I won't for fear of the moderators), but he's pretty equal-opportunity in terms of his oft-embarrassingly-put denunciation of all religion. So why jump to calling him a racist?
I say that because of this comment that he said at the end of his post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
You or maybe your family before you came to western countries for a better life but for some reason some of you want to change our culture and laws to become just like the same craphole that they left.
I am simply providing facts about a legal system. I think the disconnect is that when I refer to extremism, I refer to radical Islam. You're referring extremism as a strong belief in a religious system regardless of the various degrees that exist. Which means, you could say that the Alberta PC's or the USA governing system are extremist. Which if that is your argument, then it makes sense to me.
I'm referring to extremism in terms of having an extreme view. In my opinion the desire to apply religious law, of any nature, to a modern secular society is extreme.
No the PC's or the USA governing system are not the same. The desires and actions of some of the religious voters in the US are the same however. If some Christian ####### wants to change the law to apply biblical policies to restrict gay people or abortions, to me that is an extremist view because you're trying to apply your religious doctrine to society as a whole.
I say that because of this comment that he said at the end of his post:
I see. That's certainly xenophobic, but I think you're a little too quick to conflate that with racism. You might be right, I just recoil at that sort of knee jerk accusation. Anyway I don't plan to start defending T@T, not a particularly good use of my time.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I see. That's certainly xenophobic, but I think you're a little too quick to conflate that with racism. You might be right, I just recoil at that sort of knee jerk accusation. Anyway I don't plan to start defending T@T, not a particularly good use of my time.
No the PC's or the USA governing system are not the same. The desires and actions of some of the religious voters in the US are the same however. If some Christian ####### wants to change the law to apply biblical policies to restrict gay people ... to me that is an extremist view because you're trying to apply your religious doctrine to society as a whole.
That has legitimately been happening, and continues to happen as recently as last week, in bills being signed by government officials.
The members of the US government and Canadian Conservatives don't use religious reasons to restrict the rights of gay people? My god, I've heard it all.
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Don't we all agree that that's wrong, and that the people promoting it subscribe to an ideology that needs to be intellectually defeated? I mean that's exactly what he just said, that there are some people in the US in particular who do this and that he thinks they're rightly labelled radical or extremist, too... I'm not sure what your point is?
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I'm referring to extremism in terms of having an extreme view. In my opinion the desire to apply religious law, of any nature, to a modern secular society is extreme.
No the PC's or the USA governing system are not the same. The desires and actions of some of the religious voters in the US are the same however. If some Christian ####### wants to change the law to apply biblical policies to restrict gay people or abortions, to me that is an extremist view because you're trying to apply your religious doctrine to society as a whole.
Ok that's fair. There were various MP's elected of the conservative party that are anti-abortion.
I think I understand your perspective. Mine was simply that extremism is based on extreme views of religion. I agree that the desire to apply religious laws to a modern secular society is extreme as well.
I don't, however, think that counties like Indonesia are extremist countries because while Sharia law exist in those countries, it is a relatively peaceful nation, women have equal rights, and their views do not align with the extreme views that we see from radical Islam (similar to Saudi Arabia or Iran). It is a religious country, yes, but I also don't think you can discuss Indonesian muslims in the same light as you would as Saudi Muslims or ISIS or radical Islam. And going back to my original argument, that means that I don't think you could say moderate muslims or myself should be spoken about in the same light as the extremist muslims. We don't believe in that stuff.
But if you believe that any religion implementation in governance is extremism, that's fair, that's a personal opinion.
Not trying to spin you in a negative light by any means.
Women do not have equal rights in Indonesia. 85+% of girls there (and basically all Muslim girls) are subjected to FGM. Sharia courts, which are treated as alternative to secular courts, treat Womens' evidence as worth less than a man's. Half of Indonesian muslims think that Sharia should apply to all citizens, whether they're Muslims or not. 48% in that Pew poll were in favour of stoning people for adultery.
The notion that Indonesia is some counter-example is ludicrous.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
I'm loathe to get into much of this but I will point out having grown up in London with many many Pakistani friends back in the Seventies, none of them gave a #### about sharia law, they were all becoming as western as possible as quickly as possible.
The advent of hardline Wahhabi/suffist philosophy is very new, it's only the last thirty years that Saudi has been selling this crap to the masses in an attempt to keep its people in order.
One of the things we should do is stop seeing Saudi as an ally, they are not, they are more trouble than Putin and Saddam Husain combined.
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