[News] Jimmy Vesey will go to unrestricted free agency

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Not at all, your comments are just very transparent and selfish with the Vesey to Toronto rumours.

All I said is whatever team signs him will be happy. Leafs haven't signed him yet and I doubt they will. You're the one that started with the putdowns.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

All I said is whatever team signs him will be happy. Leafs haven't signed him yet and I doubt they will. You're the one that started with the putdowns.

The leaf drafting has been inept. Wasn't a putdown, was the truth.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

The leaf drafting has been inept. Wasn't a putdown, was the truth.

It's pointless to argue with someone like you, but a quick search of NHL team prospect rankings had the Leafs at 4th on HockeyFutures and 6th on the hockeywrtiters so their drafting/evaluating prospects to trade for seems to be decent of late.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think the more guys coming out of college that do this, the easier it is for others to do it as well. It was practically unthinkable to do a few years ago. Now? It seems that all the college UFAs and graduating drafted players are practically lumped into the same category for under signing watches.

Vesey went a step beyond and told Nashville that he was going to sign when he probably had his decision not to sign already made. Shultz pulled the same stunt with Anaheim apparently. Erixon with us.

I honestly believe that teams will start pointing there prospects towards the CHL more, and guys getting drafted out of the USHL will start going directly into the AHL more - at least an increase. NCAA will then have to alter the rules.

The supplementary draft idea posted a few pages back is a really good idea too - makes it 'fair' for these entitled punks (well, at the very least the punks are the ones that string the team along as per above), while having a team recoup something for an asset. These aren't always first rounders who will automatically garner a compensatory draft pick, but are lower round picks that have really developed and are worth much more than they were drafted in. Makes the compensation a lot more fair anyways.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

It's pointless to argue with someone like you, but a quick search of NHL team prospect rankings had the Leafs at 4th on HockeyFutures and 6th on the hockeywrtiters so their drafting/evaluating prospects to trade for seems to be decent of late.

Someone like me? You mean someone who watches hockey? Yeah you're probably right.

The sites you mention have Marner above Nylander, that should speak volumes to their credibility. Moving on.

[Five-hole]

It seems to me this rule is to allow a player who's team doesn't want to sign him to look elsewhere. That's important. But if the drafting team wants the player, he shouldn't be able to opt for UFA.

Simplest solution in my mind is that after Aug 15, they become a special group of RFA where any team can offer them a contract but the drafting team can match. Satisfies both situations.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Someone like me? You mean someone who watches hockey? Yeah you're probably right.

The sites you mention have Marner above Nylander, that should speak volumes to their credibility. Moving on.

Stop pretending you know anything about Leafs prospects. At the start of the season some people put Marner as the Leafs top prospect and some had Nylander.

Yeah you watch the Marlies? I doubt it. You don't know ####.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Stop pretending you know anything about Leafs prospects. At the start of the season some people put Marner as the Leafs top prospect and some had Nylander.

Yeah you watch the Marlies? I doubt it. You don't know ####.

Leafs have definitely turned it around, but the Oilers for years had the beset prospect pool and look where it got them.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by savemedrzaius

Stop pretending you know anything about Leafs prospects. At the start of the season some people put Marner as the Leafs top prospect and some had Nylander.

Yeah you watch the Marlies? I doubt it. You don't know ####.

Marner plays for the Marlies? Wow interesting, tell me more.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Marner plays for the Marlies? Wow interesting, tell me more.

All the Leafs prospects play for the Knights? Wow, didn't know that. The majority of the Leaf prospects play for the Marlies. Marner is one prospect.

MOD EDIT: Please watch the name calling.

[CalgaryFan1988]

We were talking about Marner and Nylander...... Sorry I didn't know you were heavy into the sauce tonight.

How many prospects are actually still on the Marlies? Kapanen and?

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

We were talking about Marner and Nylander...... Sorry I didn't know you were heavy into the sauce tonight.

How many prospects are actually still on the Marlies? Kapanen and?

It's on the last page buddy, you said, "Oh sorry to disappoint you, you probably believe the media hype. Other than Nylander they have jack ####." You claimed other than Nylander the Leafs have "jack ####". After I posted the Leafs team prospect rankings you said those rankings don't count because they had Marner over Nylander.

And they still have Kapanen, Leivo, Leipsic, Gauthier, Smith playing with the Marlies. Kind of shows they have a decent stockpile of prospects. Which is all I was saying.

[driveway]

I actually have no problem with the rules as they stand. I think they're really good actually, particularly compared to Basketball or Football where being drafted into the pros immediately ends a players NCAA career (in the case of Basketball, simply declaring for the draft ends your NCAA eligibility, I don't know why).

4 years from the time of being drafted is a totally reasonable amount of time to give a young man the opportunity to grow as a player and make a determination about their own career. Can you imagine if you had been selected by a company, pretty much at random, right out of high school and they were able to demand you work for them once you finished your Bachelor's? You'd be furious.

There's what, one player a year for whom this is an issue? Two?

Meanwhile, teams simply don't 'invest' anything other than time into their NCAA prospects. The absolute maximum a player can accept from an NHL team is 48 hours of expenses at one development camp per team. Any other attendance, travel, lodging, food, etc. has to be paid out of the player's pocket or they lose NCAA eligibility. Hell, they can't even accept the hat and jersey they're given on draft day without losing amateur status.

Teams are all aware of the rules, they know the risks and rewards of drafting players who are likely to go the NCAA route and the only people who really 'suffer' in any way are fans, and what the hell are we really talking about. Oh no, a guy who has never played a single second of NHL time won't play for us, darn.

I could see maybe, maybe something like a compensatory pick to be taken at the end of the round after whichever round a player was drafted in circumstances like this as being a reasonable sop to fan's and team's complaints. So, Nashville would get a compensatory pick at #121 for not signing Vesey, but really, I think the rule as written is totally fine, and I have no issues with it.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by driveway

I actually have no problem with the rules as they stand. I think they're really good actually, particularly compared to Basketball or Football where being drafted into the pros immediately ends a players NCAA career (in the case of Basketball, simply declaring for the draft ends your NCAA eligibility, I don't know why).

4 years from the time of being drafted is a totally reasonable amount of time to give a young man the opportunity to grow as a player and make a determination about their own career. Can you imagine if you had been selected by a company, pretty much at random, right out of high school and they were able to demand you work for them once you finished your Bachelor's? You'd be furious.

There's what, one player a year for whom this is an issue? Two?

Meanwhile, teams simply don't 'invest' anything other than time into their NCAA prospects. The absolute maximum a player can accept from an NHL team is 48 hours of expenses at one development camp per team. Any other attendance, travel, lodging, food, etc. has to be paid out of the player's pocket or they lose NCAA eligibility. Hell, they can't even accept the hat and jersey they're given on draft day without losing amateur status.

Teams are all aware of the rules, they know the risks and rewards of drafting players who are likely to go the NCAA route and the only people who really 'suffer' in any way are fans, and what the hell are we really talking about. Oh no, a guy who has never played a single second of NHL time won't play for us, darn.

I could see maybe, maybe something like a compensatory pick to be taken at the end of the round after whichever round a player was drafted in circumstances like this as being a reasonable sop to fan's and team's complaints. So, Nashville would get a compensatory pick at #121 for not signing Vesey, but really, I think the rule as written is totally fine, and I have no issues with it.

Pro sports isn't just about the player, the draft exists for a reason, teams spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ a year on scouting only to see one of their picks have a nice 4th year season and bolt to another team.

It's a crappy system period!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Jake Muzzin wasn`t offered a contract by his NHL team. Nobody batted an eye because he was still an NHL talent and ended up getting a contract by the Kings and eventually made the NHL. No one lost.

If a player who isn't an NHL talent doesn't get offered a contract by his NHL team, the NHL team isn't screwing him over, his own talent is.

What do the Preds get out of this? Nada. For a player who is probably an NHL talent.

It'd be nice if there were a rule where Vesey can sign his UFA contract in August 2017 instead of August 2016. I wonder if he would change his mind.

You're acting like each team has the same signing priorities. This non-NHL talent may have been an NHL talent in one team's eye at some point during the 4 years he was held under the team's control.

Say Jankowski had a crummy year this year and was no longer considered an NHL talent. Last summer very likely an NHL team would have offered him a contract but the Flames who owned his rights didn't. He would be screwed because he could have had an NHL contract from someone but didn't because only ONE team could sign him.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by T@T

Pro sports isn't just about the player, the draft exists for a reason, teams spend hundreds of thousands of $$$ a year on scouting only to see one of their picks have a nice 4th year season and bolt to another team.

It's a crappy system period!

This player is giving up money by not signing with Nashville. Its not like he's getting off without losing out on anything.

[Da_Chief]

I hope more players take advantage of this but don't pull of the Erixon. Be up front about their decision.

If Vesey hadn't developed probably, Nashville or any other team would easily cut bait with the player. Just ask Matt DeBlouw and hundreds of other prospects.

So if a team can take advantage of years on non-development, why can't a player take advantage of years of good development?

Sucks for the team this time but for majority of the time instances it sucks for the player.

[darthma]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

In my opinion, this isn't a loophole, and it didn't need to be addressed. However, too many highly-rated prospects are choosing UFA status now, and I think it is starting to be a problem.

Maybe the answer is that the "Russian Factor" will start being applied as the "NCAA Factor", and teams will discourage their drafted prospects from choosing the NCAA route.

I don't think it really needs to be addressed yet, but I do think the numbers are indeed up with the number of players that are choosing this avenue. It seems more high-profile players are in the last couple of years anyways. I thought it was more a 'blip' than a 'thing' - now I am not so sure.

So now we can go "Pffft... typical NCAA player."

[sureLoss]

Funny how if a prospect did to their team they would be pissed off, but it happens to another team the other 29 GMs are licking their chops

Chris Nichols @NicholsOnHockey
LeBrun/Vesey: "Every team I spoke to today has so much interest in finding out what happened, but happy that he's not signing in Nashville."

Chris Nichols @NicholsOnHockey
LeBrun: "I talked to one GM today, a Western Conference GM, who said he believes Jimmy Vesey would have scored 20 goals in NHL this year."

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by darthma

So now we can go "Pffft... typical NCAA player."