Quebec's Racism

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I actually agree with you on this point. I don't think Quebec -- a province -- should be allowed to have a federal party. However, the post I was responding to was arguing that the people of Quebec are acting like a banana republic, and I was countering by stating that as a federal party, they are acting like all the other federal parties do in a minority government situtation.



Granted. But the fact remains that, the BQ is acting within their rights. If this upsets the other provinces, they should focus their frustration on the federal system that establishes these rights, not on the people of Quebec for acting in their own interests.



I'm not sure what you expect .... gratitude? A bigger say? what? I'm not being condescending here, I'd seriously like to know.

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Well, if you support a bigger say based on the fact that Alberta contributes the most money, do you think that the rich should have a bigger say than the poor? Should the amount of weight a person's vote carries be correlated to how much money they contribute to the economy in taxes? After all, that is an extension of the same principle.



That's just plain false. Equalization payments are determine based on a provinces capacity to earn revenue. How much a province spends on social policies does not factor into the equation at all. Otherwise, provinces would spend all their money to avoid the payments, as you suggest.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/gloss/gloss-e_e.html#equal

Also, if you're interested, Manitoba, Newfoundland, PEI, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia all receive about double, or in some cases more than, (per capita) what Quebec does in equalization:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

Now you just made me even more mad...know I find out those other provinces are getting even more money. Ahhhh

What I don't understand is if BC was considered a have province why couldn't Quebec? The two provinces are very similar. Access to shipping ports, lumber, mining, hydro. What is Quebec doing wrong that BC isn't?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Now you just made me even more mad...know I find out those other provinces are getting even more money. Ahhhh

What I don't understand is if BC was considered a have province why couldn't Quebec? The two provinces are very similar. Access to shipping ports, lumber, mining, hydro. What is Quebec doing wrong that BC isn't?

those frogs are too lazy to go get jobs. too busy drinking wine and eating poutine.

edit: even lazier than those pot smoking hippies.... that's saying a lot.

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Now you just made me even more mad...know I find out those other provinces are getting even more money. Ahhhh

I don't know why this makes you mad. Equalization payments are merely a tax provinces have to pay for being part of Canada. Do you get mad you have to pay personal income tax as well? Is charging Canadian residents income tax unfair? Aside, you do know once upon a time, Alberta received transfer payments as well, right?

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

What I don't understand is if BC was considered a have province why couldn't Quebec? The two provinces are very similar. Access to shipping ports, lumber, mining, hydro. What is Quebec doing wrong that BC isn't?

The vast majority of the funds that are contributed to equalization payments nationwide come from provincial taxes -- both personal and business. Equalization payments are calcualated on a per-capita basis to make them comparable across provinces. Perhaps, and I'm speculating here, BC simply has a greater number of wealthy people and businesses per capita.

Also, albeit by a small margin, BC is not a have province either. They have been receiving equalization payments as well. Only Alberta and Ontario do not.

The 23 factors that contribute towards equalization payments and how much money was collected under each factor can be found here:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/37/1/parlbus/c...m#APPENDIX%20A

For details on how the payments are calculated, read this:
http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features...alculated.html

To see the level of each dependency each province has on equalization, view the chart Equalization as a Percentage of Own-Source Provincial Revenue here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/features...on/impact.html

You can see Newfoundland received 49 cents in equalization for every dollar earned in the province. Whereas Quebec only received 10 cents for every dollar they earned.

[jolinar of malkshor]

[quote=BlackEleven;568560]I don't know why this makes you mad. Equalization payments are merely a tax provinces have to pay for being part of Canada. Do you get mad you have to pay personal income tax as well? Is charging Canadian residents income tax unfair? Aside, you do know once upon a time, Alberta received transfer payments as well, right?[QUOTE]

Yes paying income tax makes me mad. Especially the amount we pay and how it's spent. Seeing since income tax was suppose to be a temporary tax for the war, it has stuck around for a while.

The vast majority of the funds that are contributed to equalization payments nationwide come from provincial taxes -- both personal and business.

Obviously I am not an expert, but equalization comes in the form of taxpayers paying money to the Feds. Not the provincial portion. Although the feds collect for the provinces tax aswell and then forwards the money onward. The equalization comes in the form of not sending back the same amount collect from the province. Thats my understanding of it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Yes but I didn't write that. It says originally posted by Jolinar, I didn't post that. Is it something I am doing or them?

Going back through the posts, I think you started the first screwup, that has lead to this whole thread going wrong.

Use the quote buttons properly, and it won't happen.

[transplant99]

Im curious as to why no one has responded to my original post in this thread...its a legitimate story, and somewhat flies in the face of what so many call racism....doesn't it?

[moon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im curious as to why no one has responded to my original post in this thread...its a legitimate story, and somewhat flies in the face of what so many call racism....doesn't it?

Don't you know minorities can't be racist towards white people. And if they do somehting that seems like it we can't complain because 500 years ago some white people did bad things to minorities. And although there are things in place to ensure that many jobs/university spots go to minorities over white males we get all the good jobs and minorities can't get anything.

Also, it is our fault that despite recieving money, lax university entrance requirements, free job training etc. It is our fault that many natives choose to do drugs and alcohol rather than better themselves. It shouldn't be the responsiblity of the community and their leaders that continually talk about how whites don't understand native culture and should butt out to set an example and encourage their people to better themselves and stop using the excuse of whites taking over their land and residental schools as reasons for their lot in life. Instead we should increase our funding to them and never say a thing when the money is obviously being spent in the wrong areas and doing nothing to help the native population improve their lives.

matsnaslund:

I have to both reserves around Lethbridge and the reason that they are in the state they are is because of the people that live there. I have met plenty of people form both reserves that have become successful and say that it is not hard if you are willing to put the work in. Plenty of awful things happened to Natives during the residential school era but Natives today have every opportunity to get ahead in life with the grants they get for university and the entrance requirements that are made special for them. More needs to be done withint he community to promote these opportunities and more needs to be made of those that have taken advantage of it and become successful.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im curious as to why no one has responded to my original post in this thread...its a legitimate story, and somewhat flies in the face of what so many call racism....doesn't it?

Did she not like you because you're white? Maybe.

Has she or someone she knows been the victim of, say, a racial slur? I'd say so. I've never met a non-white person, including myself, that hasn't been the victim of one. Yeah, it sucks that she took it out on you because you're white.

But you know what, if the worst thing she did to you was not greet you in the way you expected, that's pretty small. And you're still well within the realm of speculation. Maybe you just smelled bad. Maybe you had a big booger hanging from your nose. Maybe your fly was undone.

The worst thing it would be is passive-aggresive racism. Did she call you "redneck", or drag your tied up body on the ground around town with a truck? Were you in a lineup with the other white people buying groceries? Did anybody refuse you service?

Racism is now mostly practiced at an individual level. Institutionalized segregation is gone.

You can take solace in the fact that most people in general, esp. in NA, aren't racist. There's always a few bad apples, but for the most part people on this continent want to live together.

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

Being a minority, I can definately say it is worst in Calgary then any Canadian city I have been in. Edmonton, where I went to university, is not bad at all, which was a nice surprise.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Did she not like you because you're white? Maybe.

I think you failed to realize the point Transplant was trying to make.

Racism, if one wants to call such an incident as Transplant was describing as 'racism' works both ways.

Personally, I think people feel comfortable around the people they know, understand and are friends with.

I also think it is human nature to become uncomfortable around a different culture, or a different race. I'm sure if any one of us went to Nigeria for a month, we would have a hard time adapting, and getting used to the lifestyles of different people.

It is not racism when, as a white person, you are not able to strike up a conversation with a black person. I went to school with a guy that was very much a part of an ethnic minority. I took me a few years before I was able to become enough 'friend' that I would go to his house, play video games or go to movies with him.

And not because I was racist to wards him(I was one of the few who wasn't) but because the barrier in different lifestyles, and a different culture existed.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by moon

And although there are things in place to ensure that many jobs/university spots go to minorities over white males we get all the good jobs and minorities can't get anything.

Really? I know a few 'minorities' at work who I'm quite certain would consider that they have a 'good job' compared to your ****ing ditch-digging gig.

Did you ever consider that the university spots and jobs that didn't go to the honkies you are/know went to people who were actually smarter than you?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Azure

Personally, I think people feel comfortable around the people they know, understand and are friends with.

I also think it is human nature to become uncomfortable around a different culture, or a different race. I'm sure if any one of us went to Nigeria for a month, we would have a hard time adapting, and getting used to the lifestyles of different people.

It is not racism when, as a white person, you are not able to strike up a conversation with a black person. I went to school with a guy that was very much a part of an ethnic minority. I took me a few years before I was able to become enough 'friend' that I would go to his house, play video games or go to movies with him.

And not because I was racist to wards him(I was one of the few who wasn't) but because the barrier in different lifestyles, and a different culture existed.

What a load of crap! If a person made ANY effort to get to know or understand a person of a different skin color, culture or religion, any discomfort would disappear in hours, or at most, days. All it takes is a minimum amount of effort.

I live and work amongst Azeri's. I realize they are people, just like me, but their skin color and religion happen to be different. They have the same values as I do, caring for family and loved ones - in fact they put N. Americans to shame when it comes to caring for elderly or impoverished family members.

I've lived and worked amongst Yemeni's as well, and those that I met were the same - just people.

If you start with the viewpoint that we are all the same beneath the skin, it shouldn't take YEARS to become friends with an ethnic minority.

I don't know your background Azure, but if it takes years for you to feel comfortable enough to form a friendship with a 'ethnic minority' I suggest you examine YOUR values and perconceptions.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im curious as to why no one has responded to my original post in this thread...its a legitimate story, and somewhat flies in the face of what so many call racism....doesn't it?

You don't count - you're a whitey.

[moon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Really? I know a few 'minorities' at work who I'm quite certain would consider that they have a 'good job' compared to your ****ing ditch-digging gig.

Did you ever consider that the university spots and jobs that didn't go to the honkies you are/know went to people who were actually smarter than you?

Don't know anyone that wanted to go to university and couldn't.

My ditch digging job is going great and my pay is near the top of the industry so I have no complaints.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

What a load of crap! If a person made ANY effort to get to know or understand a person of a different skin color, culture or religion, any discomfort would disappear in hours, or at most, days. All it takes is a minimum amount of effort.

I guess you have the knowledge of knowing just 'exactly' the situation I was in.

I live and work amongst Azeri's. I realize they are people, just like me, but their skin color and religion happen to be different. They have the same values as I do, caring for family and loved ones - in fact they put N. Americans to shame when it comes to caring for elderly or impoverished family members.

Whats your point?

You live and work amongst them, something many of us don't. Doesn't that put you in a different situation then someone who is only around people identical to them?

I've lived and worked amongst Yemeni's as well, and those that I met were the same - just people.

Of course they are just people, I never stated otherwise.

If you start with the viewpoint that we are all the same beneath the skin, it shouldn't take YEARS to become friends with an ethnic minority.

Let me guess, you are part of a ethnic minority as well?

I lived in the US for 3 years....and was around Black people a lot. Did I try to make an effort to become friends with them..strike up a conversation? Of course I did....but it still took time...and lots of it with certain people....before the conversation extended from..."hi how are you"....to talking about family, politics, etc, etc.

I don't know your background Azure, but if it takes years for you to feel comfortable enough to form a friendship with a 'ethnic minority' I suggest you examine YOUR values and preconceptions.

Thanks for proving my point. Just because some of us cannot walk into a crowd and strike up a conversation with someone we do not know...like the cashier for example in Transplants story...we have screwed up values and have a habit of forming preconceptions about other people.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Azure

Whats your point?

You live and work amongst them, something many of us don't. Doesn't that put you in a different situation then someone who is only around people identical to them?

In a sense it does, because I realize they aren't any different from me. I'm not afraid or intimdated by them. There is no stigma of mystery surrounding them with me.

Originally Posted by Azure

Let me guess, you are part of a ethnic minority as well?

Not sure why you would ask that, or why that would make a difference, but I'm as WASPy as you can get.

Originally Posted by Azure

Thanks for proving my point. Just because some of us cannot walk into a crowd and strike up a conversation with someone we do not know...like the cashier for example in Transplants story...we have screwed up values and have a habit of forming preconceptions about other people.

What point did I prove if, in your own words:

I went to school with a guy that was very much a part of an ethnic minority. I took me a few years before I was able to become enough 'friend' that I would go to his house, play video games or go to movies with him.

it took you YEARS to get comfortable enough to play video games or go to a movie with a minority?

I can't figure out how that could be considered representative of most 'white people'. Sounds more like the thinking of someone who would believe that 'races' shouldn't mix. Gotta keep the bloodlines pure.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

In a sense it does, because I realize they aren't any different from me. I'm not afraid or intimdated by them. There is no stigma of mystery surrounding them with me.

I'm not afraid or intimidated by other ethnic groups either.

it took you YEARS to get comfortable enough to play video games or go to a movie with a minority?

Again, there were other circumstances involved, some that I never had anything to do with.

Throughout grades 5-10...the kid I'm talking about was often treated in almost inhumane ways by certain kids in school. That had a lot to do with him being unwilling to show enough trust towards someone, like myself, that he would even talk to me.

I can't figure out how that could be considered representative of most 'white people'. Sounds more like the thinking of someone who would believe that 'races' shouldn't mix. Gotta keep the bloodlines pure.

In other words, I'm racist.

Thanks for that as well.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Azure

Throughout grades 5-10...the kid I'm talking about was often treated in almost inhumane ways by certain kids in school. That had a lot to do with him being unwilling to show enough trust towards someone, like myself, that he would even talk to me.



In other words, I'm racist.

Thanks for that as well.

For Christ's sakes, give it up. Are you going to play the martyr now?

This could be an afterschool special. Young Azure extends an olive branch to the poor abused ethic boy and through extraordinary effort bridges the great cultural gap between them.

I could have sworn you'd said:

Personally, I think people feel comfortable around the people they know, understand and are friends with.

I also think it is human nature to become uncomfortable around a different culture, or a different race.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

For Christ's sakes, give it up. Are you going to play the martyr now?

This could be an afterschool special. Young Azure extends an olive branch to the poor abused ethic boy and through extraordinary effort bridges the great cultural gap between them.

I could have sworn you'd said:

Sure I said that...and most people who I have talked to, who have been to China, Japan, India, Africa, Thailand...all say the same thing.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by White Doors

You don't count - you're a whitey.

Originally Posted by Moon

Don't you know minorities can't be racist towards white people. And if they do somehting that seems like it we can't complain because 500 years ago some white people did bad things to minorities.

Just wondering where you guys are getting this from? Who said racism can't happen to white people?