If Dallas and Colorado were to meet in the playoffs... - Page 6 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2016, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bax

I still don't see the big deal?

The flames are most likely in the same spot they are today whether iggy goes to Boston or Pitts. It's on feaster more than iggy

No, it's not. This is on "Iggy." He was the one that submitted the list and made a good faith promise to accept to any of those teams. The Flames struck their best deal and Iginla changed the rules mid-stream. King's quote said as much. Believe me, that is the last time the team trusts a player to live by his word. Iginla put the team in a bad position because he wouldn't live up to his word. Would the Flames have been better off with one deal or another? We can't say. We can say one thing for certain, Iginla put the team in a bad position. That's on him.

sun · 03-25-2016, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

No, it's not. This is on "Iggy." He was the one that submitted the list and made a good faith promise to accept to any of those teams. The Flames struck their best deal and Iginla changed the rules mid-stream. King's quote said as much. Believe me, that is the last time the team trusts a player to live by his word. Iginla put the team in a bad position because he wouldn't live up to his word. Would the Flames have been better off with one deal or another? We can't say. We can say one thing for certain, Iginla put the team in a bad position. That's on him.

He had every right to change his alleged "word". Feaster is a nitwit for not getting it in writing. These guys aren't hockey playing robots, they're human beings. He negotiated a NMC for a reason. Just because we have a smidgen of info from behind the scenes doesn't mean Iginla "put the team in a bad position". He's not the GM. It's not his job to maximize a return for his own trade. His job is to help his team win. Roast him for that if you want. Here are his stats.

If Feaster didn't have this oversight, none of us would even know what happened and this conversation wouldn't exist. No one slights Iginla for turning down a deal to, say, the Kings or the Hawks. Because Feaster never told those teams the deal was done when it wasn't. Iginla "screwed" the franchise because Feaster got a meh return instead of the original meh+ return. Okay...

Chia - "Now, these things happen all the time, more than you know, about deals going south for whatever reason."

We know about this one because Feaster bungled it and told Chia it was done when it wasn't. Chia told the players/Ward it was done and it wasn't. It's not Iginla's fault people thought a deal was done and it wasn't. It was Feaster's, this is very clear.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2016, 01:30 PM

@sun

There was a level of trust between the team and the player. There was a long standing relationship there between the team, management, and ownership. It was believed Iginla could be taken at his word, because a man is only as good as his word. It turns out Iginla's word wasn't worth ####.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend Iginla in this instance. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone that I will do something, and give them my word, that means something to me and the people that know me. When you fail to follow through on those promises it makes you untrustworthy. That's the problem for me. Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party. ###### move from a player we thought was a standup guy.

Machiavelli · 03-25-2016, 01:34 PM

This stuff really doesn't need to be rehashed; the argument has been played out to death on CP. I doubt anyone's opinion is going to change because the other side keeps repeating theirs.

The horse is dead.

GoJetsGo · 03-25-2016, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

@sun

There was a level of trust between the team and the player. There was a long standing relationship there between the team, management, and ownership. It was believed Iginla could be taken at his word, because a man is only as good as his word. It turns out Iginla's word wasn't worth ####.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend Iginla in this instance. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone that I will do something, and give them my word, that means something to me and the people that know me. When you fail to follow through on those promises it makes you untrustworthy. That's the problem for me. Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party. ###### move from a player we thought was a standup guy.

Are you always this angry?

That seems extremely over-dramatic.

He had a no-move clause, and while he did specify he'd go to Boston or Pittsburgh, he was clearly thinking long and hard about it at the time and changed his mind. That entire situation played out very quickly over a matter of hours.

The fact you outright admit we have no idea if it really made any discernible difference to us in the long run just underlines how odd it is that you seem this angry about it.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2016, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Are you always this angry?

That seems extremely over-dramatic.

He had a no-move clause, and while he did specify he'd go to Boston or Pittsburgh, he was clearly thinking long and hard about it at the time and changed his mind. That entire situation played out very quickly over a matter of hours.

The fact you outright admit we have no idea if it really made any discernible difference to us in the long run just underlines how odd it is that you seem this angry about it.

Do you always have to stick your nose in and pick fights where there isn't a fight going on? Go watch a Jets game or something.

GoJetsGo · 03-25-2016, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Do you always have to stick your nose in and pick fights where there isn't a fight going on? Go watch a Jets game or something.

lol, I'm sorry, there wasn't a discussion going on?

Cause it looked like you were doing your best to have a hissy fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party.

Yea, I'm sure he was sitting there thinking about how he could "put one over" on those guys during those last few hours before the trade was announced.

The part about him coming out and saying he'd given it more thought and liked the roll the Pens were on (a huge unbeaten streak) and the opportunity to play with Crosby again were probably all just smoke and mirrors trying to cover up his master plan at screwing the Flames management over.

He'd probably been planning that for years.

If you don't like being called on your dramatics, take a deep breath and read what you're saying before you say it. Not liking that situation is one thing, but that's asinine.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2016, 01:45 PM

@GoJetsGo

Take your own advice. You are the drama queen or drama queens on this site. Don't bother replying. You're the first member of my ignore list.

GoJetsGo · 03-25-2016, 01:47 PM

Nothing like resorting to insults and more dramatics when you can't defend your position.

I can understand how some people might not like how that situation played out. But to try and pin malice on Iginla, especially with that much drama behind it, was extremely weak and you deserved to be called on it.

The fact you have no ability to defend that stance speaks for itself.

Yamer · 03-25-2016, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

You're right, only 57 other posters were interested in the thread before you got here

So many people talk like they KNOW what happened, when it's all speculation.

It seems more plausible to me that Feaster told Iggy about both trades, but that they preferred the return from Boston. And even then we don't know exactly how this was presented. Iggy made the decision he felt was best for himself, and his chances of winning a cup. A lot of people would slag a guy for not doing his absolute best to win (though I acknowledge the margin between Boston and Pitt was pretty narrow).

Iginla didn't owe the Flames anything based on the contract both parties signed. There are two possible scenarios that got them to the situation: Iginla insisted he would have final say right before officially waiving, as a condition for waiving at all, or Feaster just didn't think things through well enough when not getting it in writing sooner.

We might not have liked it, but no one could have blamed Iggy for wanting to stay here with his family and waiting until the summer to make his move. It's happened before; see Sundin, Mats.

The Boston players being told anything before the ink was dry speaks to Chiarelli's incompetence, and Feaster's to some extent too for telling him it was a done deal before it was.

I have it from a very reliable source close to the situation at the time, so I'm pretty confident this is how it played out.

And you're right, this isn't all on Iggy...but he's as culpable as anyone else here.

FlamesAddiction · 03-25-2016, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

@sun

There was a level of trust between the team and the player. There was a long standing relationship there between the team, management, and ownership. It was believed Iginla could be taken at his word, because a man is only as good as his word. It turns out Iginla's word wasn't worth ####.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend Iginla in this instance. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone that I will do something, and give them my word, that means something to me and the people that know me. When you fail to follow through on those promises it makes you untrustworthy. That's the problem for me. Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party. ###### move from a player we thought was a standup guy.

That is my take as well. Chiarelli said after the botched deal that when a player submits their list, it is understood that the player will go to any of those teams on the list. It's not usual that they get a last say after the list is submitted. But he also said that is it also in writing and the Flames didn't get it in writing, therefore Iginla did have the legal right still veto any move.

Feaster said after the fact that he made a mistake by trusting the player to abide by a practice that was considered standard but didn't bother with an official written waiver.

Feaster was dumb for not going by the book, but Iginla was a little bit of a jerk too IMO. I am sure Iginla would have signed a waiver to the teams on the list if Feaster put one in front of him, so really Feaster bears the most blame.

saillias · 03-25-2016, 03:55 PM

I'd cheer for Dallas because I want the Flames to get a 1st. Colorado would be a weak playoff team and not going to win a Cup.

powderjunkie · 03-25-2016, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

No, it's not. This is on "Iggy." He was the one that submitted the list and made a good faith promise to accept to any of those teams. The Flames struck their best deal and Iginla changed the rules mid-stream. King's quote said as much. Believe me, that is the last time the team trusts a player to live by his word. Iginla put the team in a bad position because he wouldn't live up to his word. Would the Flames have been better off with one deal or another? We can't say. We can say one thing for certain, Iginla put the team in a bad position. That's on him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

@sun

There was a level of trust between the team and the player. There was a long standing relationship there between the team, management, and ownership. It was believed Iginla could be taken at his word, because a man is only as good as his word. It turns out Iginla's word wasn't worth ####.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend Iginla in this instance. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone that I will do something, and give them my word, that means something to me and the people that know me. When you fail to follow through on those promises it makes you untrustworthy. That's the problem for me. Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party. ###### move from a player we thought was a standup guy.

This is exactly what I'm talking about...you have no idea if Iginla "gave his word" that he'd accept a trade to any of those teams...I'm quite certain he never said anything like "Jay, I promise you that I will accept a trade to either Pittsburgh or Boston (or LA or Chi)".

The key to this whole issue is how the first request for Iginla to waive his NMC actually occurred. Was he asked for a list of teams he'd be traded to, or a list of teams he would consider being traded to? We don't know how motivated Iginla was to be traded (or if would prefer maintaining his family life and figuring it out in the summer). It was the lockout shortened season; although Calgary was never in close contention, it was a shorter window than usual for a player to 'come to terms' with the fact that his team wasn't making the playoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That is my take as well. Chiarelli said after the botched deal that when a player submits their list, it is understood that the player will go to any of those teams on the list. It's not usual that they get a last say after the list is submitted. But he also said that is it also in writing and the Flames didn't get it in writing, therefore Iginla did have the legal right still veto any move.

Feaster said after the fact that he made a mistake by trusting the player to abide by a practice that was considered standard but didn't bother with an official written waiver.

Feaster was dumb for not going by the book, but Iginla was a little bit of a jerk too IMO. I am sure Iginla would have signed a waiver to the teams on the list if Feaster put one in front of him, so really Feaster bears the most blame.

As per above, this was Iginla's first time being traded in the NHL (don't think the Dallas trade is really relevant here) - it's not on him to "know how these things normally go". That's Feaster and his agent. Again, we have no idea how the initial discussions played out. Feaster's actions certainly seem to indicate his understanding of the situation (again, do we even know if he was involved directly in the conversations, or were King/Edwards involved? Was it direct with Iggy, or through his agent?), but I'm not comfortable giving Feaster the benefit of the doubt considering his history of bungling transactions. I can easily see how any direct conversation with Iginla was more likely with King (who knows if Feaster or Meehan were in the room/on the call), and further discussions took place between Feaster and Meehan. It's easy to see how a miscommunication could have happened.

There are three possible scenarios here: 1) Iginla 'gave his word' and renegged, 2) There was simply some confusion between the parties on how exactly the process was going to work, 3) Iggy always had the veto power, and Feaster's mouth wrote a cheque he couldn't cash yet.

I'd lean towards number 2, and again, I think the onus is on the team/GM to ensure everything is clear. FWIW I don't think this was ever that big of a deal/worthy of 'blame', but if I were to assess blame it would be about 75 team / 25 Iggy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yamer

I have it from a very reliable source close to the situation at the time, so I'm pretty confident this is how it played out.

And you're right, this isn't all on Iggy...but he's as culpable as anyone else here.

Fair enough, I don't think I really dispute your account, but it seems all of the info we have is essentially from the time Feaster told Chiarelli he'd won the sweepstakes onward. Do you have any insight to how the initial discussions with Iggy to waive his NMC played out and progressed?

iamca · 03-25-2016, 07:25 PM

It seems more likely that Dallas would match up with Minnesota and I hope that's the case. I have never cared for Roy and he is still very much a pompous ass.

Just my nickels worth, so don't bite my head off.

johnnybegaudreau · 03-25-2016, 07:25 PM

In all honesty the Avs are not going to make it past the conference finals anyhow. They don't really stand a chance at beating Chicago or Anaheim or LA. So obviously Dallas.

sun · 03-25-2016, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

@sun

There was a level of trust between the team and the player. There was a long standing relationship there between the team, management, and ownership. It was believed Iginla could be taken at his word, because a man is only as good as his word. It turns out Iginla's word wasn't worth ####.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend Iginla in this instance. I don't know about you, but when I tell someone that I will do something, and give them my word, that means something to me and the people that know me. When you fail to follow through on those promises it makes you untrustworthy. That's the problem for me. Iginla took advantage of his relationship with Edwards and King and put one over on his friends on his way out the door from the party. ###### move from a player we thought was a standup guy.

lol not even worth responding to.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-25-2016, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sun

lol not even worth responding to.

Yet, you did.

doctajones428 · 03-26-2016, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Era

@GoJetsGo

Take your own advice. You are the drama queen or drama queens on this site. Don't bother replying. You're the first member of my ignore list.

Oh get over yourself. You're being absolutely unreasonable in this and you know it. The guy disagrees, you flip out, throw mud and call him the drama queen? Unreal. You're taking the Iginla thing way too personally. He went to one of the teams he said he would go to, what more do you really want? It doesn't matter if he or Feaster made the call, Iggy is still a human being and should have the right to change his mind on a such an important career and life decision

Guess I'll be the second member of your ignore list.

Lanny_McDonald · 03-26-2016, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Oh get over yourself. You're being absolutely unreasonable in this and you know it. The guy disagrees, you flip out, throw mud and call him the drama queen? Unreal. You're taking the Iginla thing way too personally. He went to one of the teams he said he would go to, what more do you really want? It doesn't matter if he or Feaster made the call, Iggy is still a human being and should have the right to change his mind on a such an important career and life decision

Guess I'll be the second member of your ignore list.

Nawww, you're a good poster and I enjoy your stuff. GoJetsGo is just one of the most annoying posters who is always jumping in and trying to pick fights where fights don't exist.

I disagree with you on the player's right to change his mind. When you give a player a NTC or NMC there are usually stipulations in there that address the potential to allow the player control. It seems that Iginla's was a list of teams he would accept a deal to, which he gave to the Flames after agreeing to waive hit clause. Management negotiated the best deals they could and pulled the trigger on the one that best met you team needs. Iginla then went against the list he provided and limited it to one team. He went back on his word, which is kind of a dick move, not something a lot of people were expecting from the player. I'm not sure how Iginla changing his mind is something that gets hung on Feaster, and how Iggy walks away from this squeaky clean, but to a big chunk of fans that is the way this played out. It was Feaster's fault that Iginla screwed the deal over, and Iginla was just being the great guy that he always was. Just a very strange way of looking back at something that was covered in great detail.

Moderator · 03-26-2016, 08:45 AM

That's enough.