Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah....I dont think people move to one of the most expensive cities in the world to avoid taxes...?

Agree, more likely that he's moving for personal and/or business reasons and/or to escape the political situation we've found ourselves in.

He might be onto something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by heep223

Agree, more likely that he's moving for personal and/or business reasons and/or to escape the political situation we've found ourselves in.

He might be onto something.

I was thinking the same thing.

[Ducay]

I won't go into much detail, but the world's most hands on owner/investor would not move to the other side of the globe full time, or even for the majority of the time.

[nik-]

Selling his stake?

Buying an EPL team?

[burn_this_city]

Murray leaving is exactly why people said the NDP and Liberal tax increases would be revenue negative.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Murray leaving is exactly why people said the NDP and Liberal tax increases would be revenue negative.

Part of me is pissed off at policies that cause high tax payers to move, the other part of me is pissed off that a guy that made billions here would be chased off by increased taxes that will in no way affect his lifestyle but would greatly help the rest of us.

[burn_this_city]

I can't blame someone for trying to dodge a 50% increase on their provincial taxes. When you govern on ideology and public perception rather than sensibility these things happen. This province's pseudo tax haven status caused a lot of companies and wealthy individuals to migrate here for taxation purposes. We're likely to lose a lot of those people and their incomes now that Rachel has her fair share.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I can't blame someone for trying to dodge a 50% increase on their provincial taxes. When you govern on ideology and public perception rather than sensibility these things happen. This province's pseudo tax haven status caused a lot of companies and wealthy individuals to migrate here for taxation purposes. We're likely to lose a lot of those people and their incomes now that Rachel has her fair share.

Exactly.

What I find amazing is how often this lesson has to be re-learned and re-learned.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Part of me is pissed off at policies that cause high tax payers to move, the other part of me is pissed off that a guy that made billions here would be chased off by increased taxes that will in no way affect his lifestyle but would greatly help the rest of us.

And that is the root of the problem.

Ideology is great, but it rarely works when real world considerations are brought into the picture.

The protest vote for the NDP must be starting to taste pretty sour.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Bill Bumface

Part of me is pissed off at policies that cause high tax payers to move, the other part of me is pissed off that a guy that made billions here would be chased off by increased taxes that will in no way affect his lifestyle but would greatly help the rest of us.

Could you not argue that him starting a company that employs thousands and pays them fairly generously (compared to the rest of Canada) help?

Would it be better to tax these individuals or create a climate in which we help these companies generate jobs so people can help themselves. Alberta isn't Paris, people don't live here by and large because we have the social scene or lifestyle of a city like that. People can deal with high tax there because well you live in Paris or London.

I don't think they should pay no tax either, but it is pretty obvious socialism has taken over albiet briefly in Alberta and Canada. If I was a person or business I would be reviewing my options too.

I am not a conservative by any means, but this last year has been just ridiculous and it is only getting worse. There is little indication this will stop until we regulate and tax ourselves into the ground. If I was him I would take my ball and leave for a while too. No use wasting more of my money going to taxes to spend on useless green projects.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Could you not argue that him starting a company that employs thousands and pays them fairly generously (compared to the rest of Canada) help?

No question. The man has helped people here a bajillion times more than I ever have (or will).

[bizaro86]

I'm pretty sure the UK has a different (much lower) set of tax rates for foreign sourced income (non-domiciled), which is why all the Russian billionaires are in London.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I'm pretty sure the UK has a different (much lower) set of tax rates for foreign sourced income (non-domiciled), which is why all the Russian billionaires are in London.

Yeah, also probably because London isn't freaking Russia.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, also probably because London isn't freaking Russia.

Thats one of the best parts of everywhere that isnt Russia not being Russia!

[troutman]

The Beatles once had to pay a 95% super tax.

"There's one for you, nineteen for me"

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/rock-bands-taxes/

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

The protest vote for the NDP must be starting to taste pretty sour.

I don't know.

I didn't vote for or want an NDP majority. However, I still believe the PC's loosing will be a positive impact into the long term vision of our province, no matter the potential damage the NDP do in the short term.

Multiple decades of one political party is no good.

Those points aside, to directly respond to the post that this a rich guy moving is another tick to those who voted for the NDP - I doubt it. I don't think the masses that voted for the NDP are concerning themselves with lost revenue because the the rich decided to move. Should they concern themselves? Maybe, but I doubt they currently care.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Yeah, also probably because London isn't freaking Russia.

Sure, but there's lots of places that aren't Russia that they could go. Another example would be Monaco. Lots of Russian billionaires there. It's just like the South of France but with lower taxes. Surprisingly, many more billionaires there than the south of France.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Could you not argue that him starting a company that employs thousands and pays them fairly generously (compared to the rest of Canada) help?

Would it be better to tax these individuals or create a climate in which we help these companies generate jobs so people can help themselves. Alberta isn't Paris, people don't live here by and large because we have the social scene or lifestyle of a city like that. People can deal with high tax there because well you live in Paris or London.

I don't think they should pay no tax either, but it is pretty obvious socialism has taken over albiet briefly in Alberta and Canada. If I was a person or business I would be reviewing my options too.

I am not a conservative by any means, but this last year has been just ridiculous and it is only getting worse. There is little indication this will stop until we regulate and tax ourselves into the ground. If I was him I would take my ball and leave for a while too. No use wasting more of my money going to taxes to spend on useless green projects.

Could you not argue that his employees, this province and this country made him rich? I look at it as he was lucky to be able to do business in this part of the world with educated employees, low crime, good infrastructure. ...the list goes on.

The mindset of us bending over backwards because a company employs people is ridiculous. I'm building a tower for a company that has been laying people off, I would think that they would be cutting spending but it's the opposite. Need a wash bay and a golf simulator added......seems like they must be hurting.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Could you not argue that his employees, this province and this country made him rich? I look at it as he was lucky to be able to do business in this part of the world with educated employees, low crime, good infrastructure. ...the list goes on.

The mindset of us bending over backwards because a company employs people is ridiculous. I'm building a tower for a company that has been laying people off, I would think that they would be cutting spending but it's the opposite. Need a wash bay and a golf simulator added......seems like they must be hurting.

Okay but this is anecdotal bullplop.

Do you know how much a wash-bay and golf simulator cost relative to their overall financial contribution to society as a whole? No. You just see luxuries and start throwing labels around.

You know what? Screw that tower. Dont need it. Go home. You're done. Dont need you anymore.

[burn_this_city]

Golf simulators run $30k and most buildings have wash bays they lease to detailers. The money in buildings is the finishings and architecture.