CalgaryNEXT Discussion pt. 2

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Fair enough. You are certainly entitled to that opinion. I just happen to disagree. The arena was built entirely with public money so I am very happy that the operating rights (which, let's not forget, are something that they like the Flames today paid an annual fee for) were given to a not-for-profit Calgary organization which re-invests all profits into this city and this province instead of in private hands who put any profits into their pockets.

Right, and the Stampede just isn't the best fit to run that building. They are not motivated to perform the same level of service because they are not accountable to anyone but themselves. If they don't make a profit or do substandard level of service and the Flames lose season ticket holders as a result, what leverage do the flames have to make the Stampede board improve? Zero.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Edwards moving to London is just more proof this is probably one of the most bungled attempts ever to get public money for a project. These people apparently don't care about optics or public perception, they literally think they're doing this city a mega favor by spending tax dollars on a rich people playpen, and that we should be grateful for them doing this. What a disaster, I always thought they'd get money for an arena after dropping the idiocy of the field house, but they seem so obtuse about this process they might end up getting nothing and having to play the moving game.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Edwards moving to London is just more proof this is probably one of the most bungled attempts ever to get public money for a project. These people apparently don't care about optics or public perception, they literally think they're doing this city a mega favor by spending tax dollars on a rich people playpen, and that we should be grateful for them doing this. What a disaster, I always thought they'd get money for an arena after dropping the idiocy of the field house, but they seem so obtuse about this process they might end up getting nothing and having to play the moving game.

Or the tax money he saves by moving domicile to UK gets put toward the arena....essentially taking money from the tax pile to spend on the arena anyway.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Edwards moving to London is just more proof this is probably one of the most bungled attempts ever to get public money for a project. These people apparently don't care about optics or public perception, they literally think they're doing this city a mega favor by spending tax dollars on a rich people playpen, and that we should be grateful for them doing this. What a disaster, I always thought they'd get money for an arena after dropping the idiocy of the field house, but they seem so obtuse about this process they might end up getting nothing and having to play the moving game.

What does Edwards moving have anything to do with this?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Methinks Edwards can afford more than one house.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by edslunch

What does Edwards moving have anything to do with this?

"Hey can you guys pick up the tab on my building? I mean I don't want to pay taxes at all, but you guys can sure pick up the tab right?". As I said, optics are important. He leaves now to avoid taxation (and to make a point), and that's fine and his choice....but he can't complain later on when people stiff him from tax money for his arena. Just another in the long line of things that have been done that have made this project unsalable to the general public. Support for this will be in the 20s or worse at the rate their going.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by RM14

Right, and the Stampede just isn't the best fit to run that building. They are not motivated to perform the same level of service because they are not accountable to anyone but themselves. If they don't make a profit or do substandard level of service and the Flames lose season ticket holders as a result, what leverage do the flames have to make the Stampede board improve? Zero.

I completely agree. That's a big part of why they sold them those rights 22 years ago. I'm simply pointing out that operating rights were a valuable asset and I'm happy that that valuable asset got given to the Stampede at the outset instead of to private hands. As a Flames fan, I'm also happy that the Stampede sold them to the Flames. Everybody won in my mind.

I hope I'm not confusing you or anyone into thinking I wish the Stampede still had and would continue to have operating rights in any new building. I don't at all. The point of the whole operating rights thing was merely to call out New Era when he said this:

Originally Posted by New Era

When people suggest they build back on the grounds they just don't understand the board or what they are like to deal with.

That sentiment is rooted in a misunderstanding of who owned (or "owns" in the case of parking today) the things that the Flames coveted.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Methinks Edwards can afford more than one house.

If he's claiming residence in the UK to lower his tax burden that kind of points to the steps he's willing to go save some money doesn't it.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

That sentiment is rooted in a misunderstanding of who owned (or "owns" in the case of parking today) the things that the Flames coveted.

Any idea how many parking stalls are there on the Stampede ground that are paid for at an average game?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If he's claiming residence in the UK to lower his tax burden that kind of points to the steps he's willing to go save some money doesn't it.

If he is doing this for tax purposes then good riddance. This is a caricature of a greedy petulant billionaire. When do you have enough money Murray?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

If he's claiming residence in the UK to lower his tax burden that kind of points to the steps he's willing to go save some money doesn't it.

Not to me. He has business interests in various parts of the world. For all we know, he'll spend just shy of 6 months here and 6 months +1 day there (or whatever the number is for residency purposes). All it tells me is that he has chosen a plan to save on personal tax. That is hardly a slight on the city in my view.

[sureLoss]

Just curious how many owners actually declare residency in the same tax district as their NHL teams?

Anyone have those numbers?

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by New Era

Edwards is only one of the Flames ownership group. What about Libin, Markin, and Riddell? Their commitments enough?

Riddell's net worth has taken a terrible terrible hit the last year as an FYI

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Riddell's net worth has taken a terrible terrible hit the last year as an FYI

Relevance?

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by RM14

Any idea how many parking stalls are there on the Stampede ground that are paid for at an average game?

Great question. A quick count on googlemaps seems to indicate about 1000 spots. Isn't parking $20? So up to $20,000 game or $800,000 per season at the max. Add in Hitmen games, Roughneck games, and all other Saddledome events and I'd hazard a guess that the Saddledome drives about $1.5M to $2.0M in parking revenue per year? I checked the Stampede's annual financial statements and it isn't specifically called out.

edit: whoops, forgot to count the new gravel lots on the north side of the 'Dome (i.e. the late great Victoria Park). Still, $1.5M - $2.0M still feels about right in my gut.

[MolsonInBothHands]

It is $15.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Great question. A quick count on googlemaps seems to indicate about 1000 spots. Isn't parking $20? So up to $20,000 game or $800,000 per season at the max. Add in Hitmen games, Roughneck games, and all other Saddledome events and I'd hazard a guess that the Saddledome drives about $1.5M to $2.0M in parking revenue per year? I checked the Stampede's annual financial statements and it isn't specifically called out.

Awesome thanks for that insight. So when people say, "oh flames are leaving cause they want parking revenue", it likely isn't a major issue. $2MM is really not all that material in the overall business. It's something, but not a breaking point for a relationship as some suggest. Good chat mate.

[Frequitude]

Indeed. All around (you too, New Era). Now back to our regularly scheduled powerpoint presentation bash.

[getbak]

Doesn't the UK have a much higher tax rate, especially for people with a very high income?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by getbak

Doesn't the UK have a much higher tax rate, especially for people with a very high income?

Maybe the Murr-man just loves British Food?