Ongoing Terrorism/ISIS/al Qaeda Thread

[peter12]

Yeah, but you can't just change someone's perspective on their own faith like you would with software on a computer.

[killer_carlson]

It's ok to be intolerant of intolerance.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by polak

Calling me defeatist isn't really offering up a solution but thanks for your hard stance...

I didn't call you a defeatist at all.

[foshizzle11]

ISIS taking responsibility for this attack as well.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europe...ons/index.html

[polak]

I posted this in the other thread too but convince people that there is no after life, there is no god and then you will fix this issue.

Archaic beliefs is the issue here. Fix that and you fix the problem.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by polak

I posted this in the other thread too but convince people that there is no after life, there is no god and then you will fix this issue.

Archaic beliefs is the issue here. Fix that and you fix the problem.

Those beliefs drive a tremendous amount of good as well.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Those beliefs drive a tremendous amount of good as well.

Does the good outweigh the bad? Some would argue yes but others after what has happened in our world over the last 15 years would argue differently. I don't have religion in my life and I don't miss it. I have a lot of people in my life that do not attend church at all and are still charitable, neighborly and good standing members in our community. Just because people aren't religious doesn't mean they aren't good people.

Like Polak said, psychos will always exists, there will always be revolutions because of beliefs, not always because of religion.

I think getting rid of religion is an impossible feat. Too many people believe.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Those beliefs drive a tremendous amount of good as well.

Really? Does being agnostic/atheist make you lose some moral compass?

Intelligence is what makes people good. Why do you think that as we grow as a species, we all the sudden wake up to the atrocities we are allowing to happen? Sterilization, Witch hunts, Slavery, LGBT rights...etc are all symptoms of the ignorance of our species. Just like religion. The smarter we become, the more people have to make excuses for religion. The more religions themselves have to change long standing traditions because our moral compass grows and evolves independently of religion.

So no. I don't believe they do much good besides pacify the scared from their fear of death and their own insignificance.

[peter12]

Let's not get into this as I believe it is partially our cultural agnosticism that is driving this trend.

[Harry Lime]

There is nothing wrong with faith.
There is a lot wrong with religion.

Most people doing 'bad things' in the name of God have been recruited by those of very little faith, but a strong understanding of religion. From televangelists to suicide bombers.

I would suggest that all services and sermons in every church, mosque or gathering place be streamed and archived online, with easy access to the general population to see whether what is being preached in their communities is really the 'loving' word of God, or something more incendiary.

[burn_this_city]

Politics drives the motivations of terrorists, religion is the narrative they use to entice people into action. It really doesn't get much more simple than that. Creating an us vs. them mentality is exactly what propagates this garbage.

[polak]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Politics drives the motivations of terrorists, religion is the narrative they use to entice people into action. It really doesn't get much more simple than that.

Take out this idea that you have a second crack at life once you die and then see how many people you can convince to blow themselves up.

[Puppet Guy]

nm.

[CliffFletcher]

[From Belgian attack thread]

Originally Posted by jammies

We already know what causes terrorism - alienated groups, humanity's love of violence, and the human failing of credulity. It's not Islam, it's not Machine-Gun Jesus, it's not militant tree-huggers, it's not even godless socialism in our precious bodily fluids. It's people letting their fear and anger drive them to simple solutions and finding someone to blame, and reducing discourse to the same level makes us no better.

And yet the perpetrators of acts of terrorism are rather unevenly distributed among humanity. Sub-Saharan Africa is wracked with poverty, violence, and despair. Where are all the non-Mulsim African terrorists? Why aren't they blowing up airports in Belgium? Virtually every country in Latin America has witnessed violence revolutionary movements. And yet we don't see Latin American terrorists gunning down people in California shopping malls in the name of Che Guevara.

Saying that Islam is a religion of violence and you can never trust a Muslim is daft. But pretending Islamic terrorism has nothing to do with Islam is just as daft. Frighteningly large minorities of Muslims in countries like the UK believe the Koran has primacy over secular laws, and that mass violence in defence of their faith is justified. That's a real problem. Dismissing concerns about the ideological and religious roots of Islamic extremism as simple bigotry is whistling past the graveyard.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by T@T

Will it ever end?

At least 13 dead/35 injured in Brussels airport attack

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/22/europe...ons/index.html

Not while the Western World keeps inviting it in.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by polak

Really? Does being agnostic/atheist make you lose some moral compass?

Intelligence is what makes people good. Why do you think that as we grow as a species, we all the sudden wake up to the atrocities we are allowing to happen? Sterilization, Witch hunts, Slavery, LGBT rights...etc are all symptoms of the ignorance of our species. Just like religion. The smarter we become, the more people have to make excuses for religion. The more religions themselves have to change long standing traditions because our moral compass grows and evolves independently of religion.

So no. I don't believe they do much good besides pacify the scared from their fear of death and their own insignificance.

Yikes, I guess I touched a nerve. Should have been expected I suppose. I really don't believe there's a need for debating a pretty simple point - religion has driven some people to commit some abhorrent acts throughout history. But, it has also driven people to commit some beautiful acts as well. Just as agnostic persons have done good and bad. For the record, I'm not a religious person. But, I'm not going to admonish those who are based on the actions of a few.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not while the Western World keeps inviting it in.

Does that mean we should close our borders and end immigration from that part of the world? Is that inviting them in?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by polak

Take out this idea that you have a second crack at life once you die and then see how many people you can convince to blow themselves up.

Does that really hold true? A lot of people died fighting for communism in the 20th century. That fight was devoid of a religious component. Folks are willing to die for ideology if they believe it will improve things for their people.

[peter12]

To add on to what Cliff is saying:

I am not entirely certain how we can take any kind of blame for these attacks. Yes, Western actions in the Middle East have been ham-fisted, clumsy, short-sighted, and all around abject failures. The fact that the first response of a clear majority has always been to try to be understanding, to try to account for the imbalance that exists within the two worlds, and to try to reconcile those perspectives at home - where we have control - has to weaken jammie's argument even further.

Military strikes - especially of the drone variety - tend to exacerbate delicate situations ever further, and in cases like Iraq, and Libya have actually lead to near-complete collapse. This in turn has allowed hydra-like movements, such as ISIS, to gain power and momentum in pursuit of their goals. Power abhors a vacuum, and yes, Western clumsiness allowed the radicals to rise, but that doesn't change the fact that their motives have existed for decades, have only gained credibility through a series of Pyrrhic victories against their opponents, and at some point, must be given credible resistance.

To ask an oft-repeated question, how do you engage in rational dialogue with an opponent who believes the killing of innocent civilians to be the most legitimate means of conducting a political and military campaign? Even our most vicious responses - drone bombings, increasing barriers to immigration, and deportations - pale in comparison to this chilling motive.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by polak

Take out this idea that you have a second crack at life once you die and then see how many people you can convince to blow themselves up.

I definitely agree with you and I think it's actually deeper than this. The reason that these young people are susceptible to being brain washed into thinking there's some sort of glorious afterlife is because they live in poverty, have no opportunities in their lives and are uneducated. The are hopeless and this provides them an escape. The whole idea of heaven and hell originated as a measure of controlling a large population of people who needed a reason to have a sense of morality in order for society to function. Religion is the opiate of the masses and was born out of suffering.

If you solve the suffering, religion becomes unnecessary because people are happy and enjoying their actual lives. And they've developed a sense of morality because it's the right thing to do, and they are able to do so because their needs are met. Hence why places with large amounts of poverty are also very religious and places with less poverty have become much more agnostic/atheist. It's why religious belief is declining in the west. We don't need it anymore because we are enjoying our actual lives. IMO

The answer lies somehow in providing economic and personal opportunity, education, equality, meritocracy and social support in the roots of these societies. The problem is the complexity of fixing these issues in places that are really ####ed up and have been for thousands of years.