[News] Drouin to return to Lightning AHL affiliate. UPD: Lightning recall Drouin

[blankall]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

No one wanted him at Selke level - just better. Most great players are pretty good two way guys. There are very few top level players who are crap defensively. Crosby is decent, Ovie is (when he wants to be), even Kane improved his d-zone play. Gaudreau has become pretty decent in his own end and at least tries hard. One dimensional players become Hall or Eberle or Kessell. To be effective in the NHL, you'd better develop some defensive awareness and effort.

Sven may not be Drouin, but your argument is exactly what Sven supporters were saying, right down to the ".5 PPG = top line".

The main difference is that the argument didn't apply to Sven. Sven was nowhere near the talent level of Drouin offensively. Drouin is also better than Sven ever was defensively. Drouin is stronger on the puck, backchecks, and is capable of driving the play through the defence.

Drouin had also spent 1.5 years "learning the two way game" before he got fed up. It was also a process that none of the other high end draft picks in 2013 had to go through. Even all the way up to the #15 pick, the players were largely just given high end spots and opportunities.

It could be a function of Tampa going from being a low end to a high end team so quickly and having so many stars emerge.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by polak

Curious, people always warn people about "writing off prospects early" but honestly, how often does a grade A, blue chip prospect like Drouin stumble hard out of the gate and then end up living up to their draft day potential?

Seems like prospects that live up to their hype:
- Explode right off the bat and are immediately a force
- Start off well and take big steps in their first couple years

Do you often see players stumbling out of the gate for more than a season or two and then all of the sudden become that elite talent they were supposed to be?

Seems like the Sven Baertschi route is far more common for top prospects players who dont start of their career well. IE fail to live up to the hype, pressure starts mounting to perform, expectations lowered, either finds new diminished role or doesn't make the NHL.

Drouin's numbers were very solid given the playing time/opportunities he was given. If you watch some of his highlights, he most certainly was living up to his draft potential.

Generally, there's also a difference in the rate of recovery as you go further down the draft. A mid-rounder with lots of skill is generally a gamble. A high first round pick is generally much more of a sure thing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by blankall

The main difference is that the argument didn't apply to Sven. Sven was nowhere near the talent level of Drouin offensively. Drouin is also better than Sven ever was defensively. Drouin is stronger on the puck, backchecks, and is capable of driving the play through the defence.

Drouin had also spent 1.5 years "learning the two way game" before he got fed up. It was also a process that none of the other high end draft picks in 2013 had to go through. Even all the way up to the #15 pick, the players were largely just given high end spots and opportunities.

It could be a function of Tampa going from being a low end to a high end team so quickly and having so many stars emerge.

What prospects were exempt? Just because they played in the NHL right away (Monahan, McKinnon) doesn't mean they were exempt from defensive responsibilities.

[Poe969]

I want the flames to sign Stamkos and trade for drouin and play them together. That would be funny to see because I think both those players are being misused/targeted by cooper

[AcGold]

The old punch yourself in the face and hope for success tactic, worked out well once again.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What prospects were exempt? Just because they played in the NHL right away (Monahan, McKinnon) doesn't mean they were exempt from defensive responsibilities.

Don't think I ever said anyone should be exempt. Also, Drouin was not a disaster defensively. Out of all the prospects in his draft class, however, Drouin was the only one largely relegated to the bottom six or the AHL regardless of production.

[powderjunkie]

Drouin is a 0.421 ppg player including goose eggs in all 6 of his playoff games. 6 goals in 95 NHL games (0.06 gpg) does not exactly scream overwhelming offensive talent.

Would you rather have Yakupov, Hall, Gagner, Kessel or Zherdev instead of someone like Niederreiter or Turris?

Drouin's numbers so far are worse than all of those guys except Nino, and maybe Kessel. Not good enough to let him roll and hope he figures things out on his own

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by polak

Curious, people always warn people about "writing off prospects early" but honestly, how often does a grade A, blue chip prospect like Drouin stumble hard out of the gate and then end up living up to their draft day potential?

Seems like prospects that live up to their hype:
- Explode right off the bat and are immediately a force
- Start off well and take big steps in their first couple years

Do you often see players stumbling out of the gate for more than a season or two and then all of the sudden become that elite talent they were supposed to be?

Seems like the Sven Baertschi route is far more common for top prospects players who dont start of their career well. IE fail to live up to the hype, pressure starts mounting to perform, expectations lowered, either finds new diminished role or doesn't make the NHL.

Joe Thornton comes to mind right away. I am sure there have been others as well. I do think it is a huge caution sign, and the prospect's worth should indeed take at least somewhat of a hit, but that is where good scouting can pay off. He may be one of the ones that really turn it around, or just become a dud. Both happen with slow starts to the most promising of players at times.

[formulate]

Originally Posted by polak

Curious, people always warn people about "writing off prospects early" but honestly, how often does a grade A, blue chip prospect like Drouin stumble hard out of the gate and then end up living up to their draft day potential?

Seems like prospects that live up to their hype:
- Explode right off the bat and are immediately a force
- Start off well and take big steps in their first couple years

Do you often see players stumbling out of the gate for more than a season or two and then all of the sudden become that elite talent they were supposed to be?

Seems like the Sven Baertschi route is far more common for top prospects players who dont start of their career well. IE fail to live up to the hype, pressure starts mounting to perform, expectations lowered, either finds new diminished role or doesn't make the NHL.

Ryan Johansen
Kyle Turris
Adam Larsson
Nino Niederreiter

To various extents.

[Husky]

Sometimes it takes a bit for it to click. People forget gaudreau struggled when he started, was a healthy scratch and then he put it all together.

[Poe969]

I hope Drouin doesn't do well and isn't called up. I hope it gets to the point where Tampa lowers their asking price for him a lot and then the Flames pick him up. I don't care what people say about him, he's got tons of potential and a lot of skill. The Flames need more elite talent because having a team full of 2 way guys who can't put up points will get you...a team like they have now. Drouin is exactly the kind of player the Flames need.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I hope Drouin doesn't do well and isn't called up. I hope it gets to the point where Tampa lowers their asking price for him a lot and then the Flames pick him up. I don't care what people say about him, he's got tons of potential and a lot of skill. The Flames need more elite talent because having a team full of 2 way guys who can't put up points will get you...a team like they have now. Drouin is exactly the kind of player the Flames need.

Can't say that I agree that this is an accurate description of the Flames.
Gaudreau. Monahan, Gio, Brodie, Hamilton are all very good point producers with Bennett as another potentially.
Not that I disagree with the need for more elite talent in general, but to be successful all your skaters should be good two-way players, even the elite talent.

[Poe969]

So the Flames have 2 or 3 forwards and 3 defenders who can put up points.... IMO this team has focused on 2 way game too long and although I do agree that everyone needs to have a little bit of a 2 way game, it shouldn't be the main focus of a player. I don't think Drouin is ever going to be a selke nominee but I don't think he's at the Taylor Hall/Phil the thrill Kessel level of having 0 defensive game.

My point is that the Flames need guys who can put up points, they don't have that or at least not enough of them. Drouin would be a great second line player behind Johnny that would help spread out the scoring. Right now if a team shuts down Johnny and Monahan, the team is useless. The Flames need more secondary scoring and I think Drouin would provide that.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So the Flames have 2 or 3 forwards and 3 defenders who can put up points.... IMO this team has focused on 2 way game too long and although I do agree that everyone needs to have a little bit of a 2 way game, it shouldn't be the main focus of a player. I don't think Drouin is ever going to be a selke nominee but I don't think he's at the Taylor Hall/Phil the thrill Kessel level of having 0 defensive game.

My point is that the Flames need guys who can put up points, they don't have that or at least not enough of them. Drouin would be a great second line player behind Johnny that would help spread out the scoring. Right now if a team shuts down Johnny and Monahan, the team is useless. The Flames need more secondary scoring and I think Drouin would provide that.

Not even sure I agree with the need for secondary scoring. Backlund, Colbourne, and Frolik say hello. Heck, aren't the Flames top 10 in scoring?
They don't need an under-sized, under-performing winger as bad as they need an over-sized, puck possession winger with a shot.

And they don't need that player nearly as much as they need a goalie!

Stay away from Drouin, IMO. Doesn't fill team needs well enough.

[Poe969]

Ok I phrased that wrong, I do agree that the Flames have secondary scoring with those 3 guys (who IMO are a great third line) but they need a second line scorer. I guess it depends on where the Flames draft and who they get as a UFA but I think the Flames need a dynamic scorer added to the team. To me it seems that the Flames get secondary scoring only when Johnny is on his game and the other team focuses on him but when he's having an off night, there really isn't anyone else to carry the load and make things happen.

I'm a big Drouin supporter but it would depend on the cost and who else the Flames can get.

10000000% agree about the goalie situation. The Flames need a good goalie to succeed, plain and simple. Any thought of bringing back Hiller or Ramo should thrown out. I'm on the fence about Ortio but I think he should be kept in the organization, if the Flames can get 2 better goalies I'd prefer that.

[AC]

News Update

@syrhockey
Drouin will be held out of tonight’s game in Utica. It’s a consequence of missing a pre practice team meeting on Tuesday

@syrhockey
Drouin said he had an alarm clocks clock problem. Apologized and accepted full responsibility

After all that and you sleep in? Jesus christ this kid is dumb.

[Resolute 14]

That kid is kind of stupid, eh?

[Geeoff]

To be fair, our kids did the same thing but the evidence is mounting against Drouin. It kinda sucks for the Lightning because the 2013 draft was stacked and they could've gotten a franchise player instead of a headache at #3.

[Badgers Nose]

Drouin is a stupid kid that is stupid.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Husky

Sometimes it takes a bit for it to click. People forget gaudreau struggled when he started, was a healthy scratch and then he put it all together.

It took Gaudreau exactly five games; he has been lights out ever since.