Alberta Politics Thread

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Locke

Then it doesnt matter and we dont need them. Lets save our tax dollars and just not have any Government at all.

If theres nothing anyone can do then lets everyone do nothing and call it a day.

Okay?

[Locke]

nm.

[Tinordi]

The longer the whinging about the NDP goes the more insane it becomes.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, understood. Their dithering and dicking around is annoying as hell, but I just don't think they could have done anything that would have made much of a difference. I don't think anyone could have. This is what we've set ourselves up for.

Really? The list is rather extensive but I will try....
- 20% Increase in corperate tax, not something that will drive investment in Alberta
- Royalty Review, which became nothing, but the promise of one scared off investment and the fear killed many first and second 1/4 budgets
- Bill 6 Gong Show, not oil related but cost the NDP credibilty, not consulting farmers, and using buzz words such as "miscommunication" and "unfourtanate situation"
-Carbon Tax, tbd
-Many of the NDP MLA's have a history of being anti oil and gas, from drilling to fracking to pipelines and beyond, not going to garner confidence from the industry
- Notley only being "behind" energy east in words, not actions and basically saying "to heck with the other pipeline options
- 27000 job, job creation strategy which is a huge flop and is being "revisited"
-Show no real logical diversification plan
-The prospect of an unheard of budget ministered by a cabinet minister who is in way over his head
-The hypocrisy Notely has shown regarding party fundraising
-Cabinet Ministers campagning for PC candidates during the federal elction.
-Bloating the government and their pro union stance
-Deflecting questions and laying blame to the PC'c and low oil prices

I'm sure there are more but these are some of the major actions/ inactions by the AB NDP that have had a negative effect on our province. They have very little confidence from the corporate world small business and rural communitties, they have lost what little credibility they started with.

Simply putting one back hoe to work heading east would do more for oil and gas, and this province, then the current government has

[CliffFletcher]

People criticizing the government in power when the economy is tanking and the government is running massive deficits. Who would have imagined? It's insanity!

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Really? The list is rather extensive but I will try....
- 20% Increase in corperate tax, not something that will drive investment in Alberta
- Royalty Review, which became nothing, but the promise of one scared off investment and the fear killed many first and second 1/4 budgets
- Bill 6 Gong Show, not oil related but cost the NDP credibilty, not consulting farmers, and using buzz words such as "miscommunication" and "unfourtanate situation"
-Carbon Tax, tbd
-Many of the NDP MLA's have a history of being anti oil and gas, from drilling to fracking to pipelines and beyond, not going to garner confidence from the industry
- Notley only being "behind" energy east in words, not actions and basically saying "to heck with the other pipeline options
- 27000 job, job creation strategy which is a huge flop and is being "revisited"
-Show no real logical diversification plan
-The prospect of an unheard of budget ministered by a cabinet minister who is in way over his head
-The hypocrisy Notely has shown regarding party fundraising
-Cabinet Ministers campagning for PC candidates during the federal elction.
-Bloating the government and their pro union stance
-Deflecting questions and laying blame to the PC'c and low oil prices

I'm sure there are more but these are some of the major actions/ inactions by the AB NDP that have had a negative effect on our province. They have very little confidence from the corporate world small business and rural communitties, they have lost what little credibility they started with.

Simply putting one back hoe to work heading east would do more for oil and gas, and this province, then the current government has

$15/ hour minimum wage, another government mandated cost by business

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Really? The list is rather extensive but I will try....
- 20% Increase in corperate tax, not something that will drive investment in Alberta
- Royalty Review, which became nothing, but the promise of one scared off investment and the fear killed many first and second 1/4 budgets
- Bill 6 Gong Show, not oil related but cost the NDP credibilty, not consulting farmers, and using buzz words such as "miscommunication" and "unfourtanate situation"
-Carbon Tax, tbd
-Many of the NDP MLA's have a history of being anti oil and gas, from drilling to fracking to pipelines and beyond, not going to garner confidence from the industry
- Notley only being "behind" energy east in words, not actions and basically saying "to heck with the other pipeline options
- 27000 job, job creation strategy which is a huge flop and is being "revisited"
-Show no real logical diversification plan
-The prospect of an unheard of budget ministered by a cabinet minister who is in way over his head
-The hypocrisy Notely has shown regarding party fundraising
-Cabinet Ministers campagning for PC candidates during the federal elction.
-Bloating the government and their pro union stance
-Deflecting questions and laying blame to the PC'c and low oil prices

I'm sure there are more but these are some of the major actions/ inactions by the AB NDP that have had a negative effect on our province. They have very little confidence from the corporate world and rural communitties, they have lost what little credibility they started with.

Simply putting one back hoe to work heading east would do more for oil and gas, and this province, then the current government has

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

Absolving them of all responsibility is equally ridiculous.

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

Well name one thing that the AB NDP has done to boost consumer confidence, corporate business, small business, the Alberta economy. Historically the NDP have not been an economy/ business friendly government and there is little reason to believe this one is any different. There is just no confidence (and for good reason) in this government and that is a huge problem.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

$15/ hour minimum wage, another government mandated cost by business

These minimum wage jobs should have quite a few applicants seeing as the unemployment rate is high. Oh right, these folks sitting on EI are making more than someone working a 40 hour week at minimum wage.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

Honestly, I would be more terrified for the province if oil was at $100/bbl and the NDP were in power. I can only imagine the cash grabbing and piling on of taxes that would ensue.

It is all a moot point. If the price of oil had been at $100/bbl during the election, the NDP wouldn't have been elected anyways.

To say that the price of oil is irrelevant is disingenuous on both sides of the argument. The NDP wouldn't be in power if it was at $100/bbl, but they are in power now that it is far lower.

To absolve them of all criticism due to the prevailing oil price is asinine. We have had a front row seat to some of the most inept provincial governance in history.

Literally every decision that has been made by the NDP has either caused public outrage (followed by a quick retreat by Notley), or blatant embarrassment to the NDP (who flips the bird in the legislature? Really that's not surprising, as our fan favorite Deborah Drever flipped the bird to the Canadian flag.....).

Only 3 more years to go.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

This is not true in the least. A prudent government with even the smallest concept of how investment markets operate would have dropped corporate tax rates alongside the collapse in oil prices and immediately deployed capital spending as a stimulus.

Instead we have a government that seems to believe increased operational spending will suffice as a stimulus and is dithering on releasing funds for Calgary's new LRT line. They instated a corporate tax increase that will not result in higher revenues but is disincentivizing investment in the province. We are currently seeing companies moving capital to other jurisdictions and not just in oil and gas. Furthermore, they've implemented policies that are resulting in increased inflation despite a pronounced decline in fuel prices.

In fact, the depressed oil & gas market may have saved us from several of the more ridiculous proposals in the NDP platform, namely a punitive royalty regime, rent controls, and rumblings indicate they may be backing off from full implementation of a $15 minimum wage.

Not that I would expect anything else from this government, which is really a coalition of union officials and ideological fools. They are doing exactly what they said they'd do in their platform and we can't fault them for that. Unfortunately it amounts to doubling down on the failed PC policies of the last decade.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

These minimum wage jobs should have quite a few applicants seeing as the unemployment rate is high. Oh right, these folks sitting on EI are making more than someone working a 40 hour week at minimum wage.

The argument, as supported by facts from the Seattle experiment into arbitrary minimum wage rates is that there are less jobs to apply for. Companies will save money by employing fewer people, or will pick up and move jurisdictions.

The $15/hr minimum wage rate was ideological "stick it to the man" policy. The NDP had little to no supporting evidence that moving the rate abruptly to there would benefit anyone. They also did not show fact that $15/hr was borne out of a cost of living or quality of life study. Basically this is "We are sticking up for the little guy, suck it up big business!"

Now they are backing down on that too. Just like our Eastern lightweight PM, they got into power to see that facts although unpopular do matter. They are seeing their hated oil industry become their only hope for saving the economy and re-election. I am sure by next election folks will barely recognize this group, they'll actually look and sound like the PC party is my guess.

[Cowboy89]

It's true, over 90% of the economic problems of the province are due to low commodity prices and that is completely out of the scope of control for the NDP government. There are however a slew of items that are in their control and they have bungled pretty much all of these items.

When looking at this we can take two actions:

1)Throw our hands in the air and let the NDP mismanagement go on without being critical because in the greater sense it all doesn't make as big an impact as commodity prices

or

2)Hold them to a higher standard and evaluate the current NDP government under the lens of the actions of which they do control.

[Cyclops]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

The argument, as supported by facts from the Seattle experiment into arbitrary minimum wage rates is that there are less jobs to apply for. Companies will save money by employing fewer people, or will pick up and move jurisdictions.

The $15/hr minimum wage rate was ideological "stick it to the man" policy. The NDP had little to no supporting evidence that moving the rate abruptly to there would benefit anyone. They also did not show fact that $15/hr was borne out of a cost of living or quality of life study. Basically this is "We are sticking up for the little guy, suck it up big business!"

Now they are backing down on that too. Just like our Eastern lightweight PM, they got into power to see that facts although unpopular do matter. They are seeing their hated oil industry become their only hope for saving the economy and re-election. I am sure by next election folks will barely recognize this group, they'll actually look and sound like the PC party is my guess.

Some really good evidence from the Parkland Institute supporting the minimum wage hike. Lots of misconceptions thrown around in regards to who the minimum wage earners really are. Biggest demographic is single mothers.

Pretty sure the state of Minnesota raised the minimum wage with the same negativity surrounding it. Check to see how badly their economy crumpled due to the hike.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Historically the NDP have not been an economy/ business friendly government

... what is (in your opinion) an "economy friendly" government? In terms of broad outcomes not specific actions.

[puckedoff]

^ Wage is just a number

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Zarley

They instated a corporate tax increase that will not result in higher revenues [...]

[citation needed]

If you think 12% is on the downside of the Laffer curve, you're going to need some hard numbers to show that.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah, I gotcha. And the price of the one commodity we rely on so heavily collapses and the whole thing went to $hit. These piddling things you list would have barely moved the needle, if at all (or are completely irrelevant) and we all know it.

I get the need to blame someone, and I understand the anger (this affects me too) but let's be honest here. We would be in exactly the same position no matter who was in power right now.

At least we would have a government actually advocating for the development of our main economic industry.

NDP has given a huge shrug to anti-energy rhetoric and even worse actual policy from the US and Eastern Canada.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Some really good evidence from the Parkland Institute supporting the minimum wage hike. Lots of misconceptions thrown around in regards to who the minimum wage earners really are. Biggest demographic is single mothers.

Pretty sure the state of Minnesota raised the minimum wage with the same negativity surrounding it. Check to see how badly their economy crumpled due to the hike.

There is an arch to minimum wage hikes. It will do good up to a certain point and then have a detrimental effect. It won't always be a good thing to have an ever increasing minimum wage just as it isn't a good thing to always shout "tax break!".

It has worked well in Minnesota. Seattle - well there seems to be vastly different opinions but the job killing seems to have been fact checked as misleading at best (completely dishonest at worst) from the more reasonable sources I remember reading. Much of the data is convoluted by including the greater metro area which did not see the hike for instance or couldn't be explicitly tied to the hike over other market factors if their was a job loss etc. The Seattle economy right now is doing quite well and the back half of last year (may have) gained many service jobs to end the year in strong positive job gain territory.