[GDT] Flames vs. Avalanche, 7 pm, SNF

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No. The only high draft pick they had was Yzerman.

Not quite. They did draft Keith Primeau 3rd overall in 1990. He was traded in the deal that brought in Brendan Shanahan, who was a pretty significant piece of their championship teams.

(They also drafted Joe Murphy 1st overall in 1986. But he got traded to the Oilers for spare parts who were traded for other spare parts, so the benefit to the Cup-winning teams from 1997 on was pretty nearly zero.)

However, your point does stand. Three top-5 draft picks over an 8-year period hardly equates to tanking for future success.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

No. The only high draft pick they had was Yzerman.

They built their team through free agency and knocking two picks out of the park (Lidstrom and Datsyuk).

Yzerman was a fairly important player for them. He might have been in a different role at the time, but he was still integral to their success. I mean, he's probably a top 20 player of all time, so I guess it was good they were so bad back in 1983. As for their other pieces, their scouting was ahead of its time and they probed areas other teams didn't. Times have changed, and that's not exactly an effective strategy to build a team around now because scouting is so much better across the league. So yes, kudos for them for finding guys like Fedorov and Lidstrom where they did. If they were prospects today, they would go in the top 3-5 of whatever draft they were in IMO.

[D as in David]

There are times when I get this strange feeling where whether I cheer for wins or losses seemingly has no bearing on where the Flames draft.

It's weird, I know.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Not quite. They did draft Keith Primeau 3rd overall in 1990. He was traded in the deal that brought in Brendan Shanahan, who was a pretty significant piece of their championship teams.

(They also drafted Joe Murphy 1st overall in 1986. But he got traded to the Oilers for spare parts who were traded for other spare parts, so the benefit to the Cup-winning teams from 1997 on was pretty nearly zero.)

However, your point does stand. Three top-5 draft picks over an 8-year period hardly equates to tanking for future success.

It was a different time. Top picks busted frequently and great players were routinely found deep in the draft. Can't really compare those teams to championship teams now as you simply can't find talent like Fedorov and Lidstrom late in the draft in this era.

[btimbit]

Just got tickets to the game, so #### this discussion, they better win. 7-2

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It was a different time. Top picks busted frequently and great players were routinely found deep in the draft. Can't really compare those teams to championship teams now as you simply can't find talent like Fedorov and Lidstrom late in the draft in this era.

And yet you tried to use themm as an example for your argument.

Oh, and Johnny and TJ and Gio say hi

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

I have to admit, while I'm not cheering for losses it is kind of disappointing that it's looking less and less likely that the team is going to come away from this season with one of the Finns. I'm not seeing anyone in that 6-10 range that would fit this team's needs in nearly the same way.

While I will support the team no matter where they end up finishing, I can't see any better way to address the Flames' woeful RW depth without a top 3 pick.

Sad thing is even if the Flames were "that bad" finishing in the top 3, people would still complain about anyone who was hoping, or happy to get a top 3 pick.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And yet you tried to use themm as an example for your argument.

Oh, and Johnny and TJ and Gio say hi

I didn't use them, another poster did. I was just responding to what he said. I actually don't think they are a good comparison because they are from 30 years ago.

Yes, the Flames are LUCKY to have those guys, they accelerated the rebuild by years. Other team's fans must be really jealous of them, because getting those kinds of impact players the way they did is the definition of beating the odds.

[To Be Quite Honest]

Going to the game tonight.

Looking forward to watching my last (planned) gamed of the year. May it be filled with great plays and be a slap stick good time.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Let's go Flames!

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Too bad we didn't go on big runs to end the 2013 and 2014 seasons. Going out on a hot streak would've totally been worth it, even if it meant drafting Morrissey and Perlini instead of Monahan and Bennett.

We wouldn't have had the playoffs last year but at least some fans would have the moral high ground. Or something.

Seriously, this tanking debate has got to be the most mind numbing crap ever. For me, it's actually the worst part of a season like this.

The ironic part about this is everytime you post this whine it sparks 2-3 pages of debate. Which you engage in.

[Weitz]

Anyone know what attack end is that has the split between club and regular level? Got box seats in that end I think.

[FiveSeven]

I hope we play a good entertaining game and lose.
I'd like to see iggy make playoffs.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by heep223

The ironic part about this is everytime you post this whine it sparks 2-3 pages of debate. Which you engage in.

Would it be better if I didn't partake in the ensuing discussion? Would that make it less ironic? People are directing posts at me, should I not respond to them?

Honestly, it sounds like you should probably just put me on ignore if I annoy you so much.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Would it be better if I didn't partake in the ensuing discussion? Would that make it less ironic? People are directing posts at me, should I not respond to them?

Honestly, it sounds like you should probably just put me on ignore if I annoy you so much.

Do you see the irony in how you always post how annoying this debate is, and then it sparks the debate itself for multiple pages?

You don't annoy me so much. I've just noticed this happen multiple times.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by heep223

Do you see the irony in how you always post how annoying this debate is, and then it sparks the debate itself for multiple pages?

You don't annoy me so much. I've just noticed this happen multiple times.

Perhaps I worded it wrong. The debate isn't what annoys me (tanking vs not tanking). The holier than thou attitude some have towards those who would prefer a high pick is what annoys me.

[DynastyEra]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I'm not cheering for a loss, I never do that, but I'm OK if they do lose, given the circumstances, especially if they play well and lose. Let 'em out shoot and out chance the Avs all night and if Varlamov steals one away, so be it.


And if they win, well I love watching the Flames win.

Bingo, any time Gaudreau and Monahan hit the scoresheet its usually worth the price of admission alone. I know the focus down the stretch here has been dialing in overall team defensive structure and its definitely been noticeable.

I'd like to see more of a complete game from them, win or lose. This team will experience the highs and lows of rebuilding and hopefully it builds character knowing that despite playing well, things don't always go according to plan.

Finish strong and disregarding the draft talk, hope that the momentum carries over into next year. Similar to the 2014 finish.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

It was a different time. Top picks busted frequently and great players were routinely found deep in the draft. Can't really compare those teams to championship teams now as you simply can't find talent like Fedorov and Lidstrom late in the draft in this era.

You're vastly exaggerating how much drafting has improved. There are still plenty of first round busts and late round gems. The obvious Flames examples have already been provided, but also consider that while Lidstrom was drafted 53rd overall, PK Subban was drafted 43rd overall and Shea Weber was drafted 49th overall. If the exact player that Lidstrom was in 1988 as a 17 year old was playing now and being scouted for the 2016 entry draft he would probably still be picked in the same range of draft picks as he was then.

Heck, a lot of the same people who were doing the scouting in the late 80s are still active scouts now.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Anyone know what attack end is that has the split between club and regular level? Got box seats in that end I think.

Pretty sure its the Flames' defending end.

[Enoch Root]

there's a map on the Flames site