[News] Proposed expansion draft rules. Expansion decision expected before 2016 draft.

[sharkov]

Seems like Tampa and Florida would be the most hurt from the new rules

[Kickazzflames]

Pretty sure an expansion team would give Pittsburgh a solid look on one of Fluery or Murray being available in an draft expansion.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dammage79

2. I'll argue until I am blue in the darned face all day long that Hudler has had an equal if not greater impact in the development of our core forwards than Gio has or ever will. that's no slight on Gio but I contend your blunt statement that is not valid. Hudler was just as essential in the leadership of that room as Gio is. I can live with the idea that Hudler has moved on, but I will never discount what he did for this organization. Whether you like it or not. Whether your opinion varies from my statement or not.

I wasn't talking about the past, I am talking abut the present and future. Giordano was a more important player this year and going forward no contest. Hudler was great while he was here til this year. I was a huge fan. But as a small, slow, skilled forward heading into his 30's, his game was always at a much, much greater risk to drop off. Committing to him long-term at big money was too risky. It already looks like his game is starting to drop off.

Giordano is one of the most important players on the team. A top 20 defenseman in the NHL and our captain. Is there a chance he's overpaid by the end of the deal? Yes. But locking up such an important player for long term was and is very important to the future of the team. Tossing him away like trash a couple years into his extension would be boneheaded stupid. What kind of idiot would throw away the captain and a top 20 defensemen for nothing? Luckily not our GM.

Stupid, stupid, stupid suggestion.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I wasn't talking about the past, I am talking abut the present and future. Giordano was a more important player this year and going forward no contest. Hudler was great while he was here til this year. I was a huge fan. But as a small, slow, skilled forward heading into his 30's, his game was always at a much, much greater risk to drop off. Committing to him long-term at big money was too risky. It already looks like his game is starting to drop off.

Giordano is one of the most important players on the team. A top 20 defenseman in the NHL and our captain. Is there a chance he's overpaid by the end of the deal? Yes. But locking up such an important player for long term was and is very important to the future of the team. Tossing him away like trash a couple years into his extension would be boneheaded stupid. What kind of idiot would throw away the captain and a top 20 defensemen for nothing? Luckily not our GM.

Stupid, stupid, stupid suggestion.

Please tell me one more time how you really feel. I'm not sure I got it after the first batch of condescending posts. Maybe if you repeat yourself 16 more times you'll finally drive it home into my tiny little mind.

Get over it already please.

[Mister Yamoto]

(Un)Fortunately, the Flames don't have enough top end players for this to hurt. If anything, the Flames will benefit from an expansion draft.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Frolik, Colborne, Bouma(if he has a bounce back year)

Giordano, Hamilton, Brodie

Whoever the Flames #1 Goalie is next year


Bring it on Vegas and Quebec!! Come take our spare parts!!

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I can't imagine any scenario where Colborne or Bouma are protected.

[blender]

He's forgetting about the 3rd year AHL pros that will need protecting.

Ashax had a pretty realistic list earlier in the thread

[Mister Yamoto]

Whatev. Protect Ferland and Poirier instead. Point still stands. The Flames don't lose much.

[blender]

Nobody loses much in an expansion draft unless you have an embarrassment of riches. The expansion team(s) is/are going to suck.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by New Era

Did a quick exercise to run through protection lists and, not worrying about the NMC/NTC issue, came up with the following scenario.

Your Las Vegas Aces!

Pouilot (EDM) - Nash (NYR) - Read (PHI)
Rousell (DAL) - Plekanec (MTL) - Stafford (WPG)
Clutterbuck (NYI) - Smith (OTT) - Abdelkader (DET)
Hagelin (PIT) - Bouma (CGY) - Burrows (VAN)
Martinsen (COL) - Malone (CAR) - Parenteau (TOR)
Smith (NAS) - Chipchura (PHX) - Hartman (CHI)


Bouwmeester (STL), Kulikov (FLA)
McQuaid (BOS), Pysyk (BUF)
McNabb (LA), Dumba (MIN)
Merrill (NJD), Polak (SJS)
Weber (WAS)

Bobrovsky (CBJ), Anderson (ANA)

It will be interesting to see how the movement clause stuff works out. There will definitely be some talent available and the Vegas team is going to be tough out of the gate.

Rick Nash would be an interesting question for NYR, as his contract ends in 2018. I suppose it's possible he's left unprotected, but I doubt an expansion team wants to pay $8.2M in real money for one year of service.

Other notable 2018 UFA's (ie. 1 year left on contracts; their teams are less likely to protect them):

Price, Tavares, Vlasic, Carlson - almost certainly extended before then

Stastny - NTC, 7.5M real money; age 31
Sedins (NMC, but if that doesn't turn out to be relevant it would be funny to see them split up (though that might prompt retirement). I wonder how YVR fans feel about having to use two spots to protect 36 year olds?)
Koivu - NMC; 9.18M real money and age 35 so no way he's picked...just though his contract structure was interesting

E Kane - 6M real money and 5.25 cap hit. Age 25 at the time. If he's not extended, then he's likely not worth protecting...but then he is a likely example of a guy to be traded...though not necessarily out of fear of losing him in the expansion draft (hard to say if Vegas would want him based on pending UFA and character questions), but as a guarantee to recoup assets. His biggest asset to an expansion team might be to trade at the deadline for more assets.

Lupul - Age 33, but only 3.75M in real money vs. 5.25 cap hit. If he's still in Toronto, it's possible they have more young assets than protection slots though.
Neal - Age 29; likely to be exposed, hard to say if he'd be picked.
Jack Johnson - Age 30
JVR - Age 27 - certainly extended or traded before being exposed or even just protected without a new contract.
Hornqvist - Age 30
Fowler - Age 25
Sbisa - Age 27
Backlund - Age 28
Turris - Age 27 (sneaky young...hard to believe he's only 26 right now)
Eller - Age 27; 4.75M real money vs 3.5AAV
Bailey - Age 27; 4M real vs 3.3AAV
Atkinson - Age 28; 4.5 real vs 3.5
Martin Jones - age 28
Stajan - Age 33; contract is 2.5M real money + 0.5k signing. I don't imagine it's enough to make him attractive, but perhaps there is someway the Flames can pay the 0.5 bonus if it means he's picked?
Bouma - Age 28
Jimmy Hayes - Age 27
Thomas Hickey - Age 28; 3.1M real vs. 2.2 AAV
Calvert - Age 27; 2.9real vs 2.2

Not saying these guys are necessarily selected by an expansion team, but it's more likely that it moves the extension/trade deadline up for them for teams who don't want to risk losing them for nothing (or potentially wasting a protection spot on them).



Several other guys in their 30's who aren't really worth worrying about, since it's unlikely Vegas would use a pick on them for just one year of guaranteed service.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think you will see more 1 year contracts this summer for non-star players if it is announced an expansion draft is announced for after the 2017 playoffs.

[getbak]

I was curious about the definition of "first or second year pro", so I looked up the past expansion drafts to see who was and wasn't available and protected.

I was able to find a site which lists each team's protected and available players for the late-90s expansions (I assume the information is accurate, but I don't know for sure)...

• 2000: http://historicalhockey.blogspot.ca/...ion-draft.html
• 1999: http://historicalhockey.blogspot.ca/...ion-draft.html
• 1998: http://historicalhockey.blogspot.ca/...ion-draft.html

A couple of players I looked up:

Jarome Iginla: Played 2 NHL playoff games as an 18 year-old in 1996, then played 2 full seasons in the NHL for the 1996-97 and 1997-98 seasons. He was exempt from the 1998 expansion draft, but protected by the Flames in 1999 and 2000.

Joe Thornton: Drafted in 1997 and turned pro immediately. Was exempt in the 1998 expansion draft after his rookie season, and also in 1999 after his second pro season. He was protected by the Bruins in 2000.


So, looking at those guys, "second year pros" means players who have played two or fewer pro seasons, not those who willing be entering their second pro season.


Then, there's the curious case of Zdeno Chara. Chara was drafted out of Europe in 1996, then played a year of junior in Prince George. He turned pro in the 1997-98 season, splitting the season between the NHL and AHL. According to that expansion draft list, Chara was protected by the Islanders in the 1998 Draft, after only his first pro season. The only reason I can think of for why he wouldn't have been exempt is because he played some pro games in Europe before he was drafted. What's even more odd is that he's not listed on the protected list for the 1999 Draft, so the 1998 listing might be a typo.


I also tried to find some comparables for Gillies...

Ryan Johnson, drafted out of the USHL in 1994. Played 2 seasons of College and turned pro in 1996-97. He was exempt in 1998, and protected in 1999 and 2000.

Two former Flames: Chris Clark & Chris Drury: Both drafted in 1994 and played 4 years of College. Both turned pro in 1998-99. Both were exempt in the 1999 and 2000 drafts.


If they use the same standards as the past, and don't consider Gillies' time in Calgary last season with no games played as a pro season, he should be exempt as a second-year pro next year.

[dying4acup]

I would love clarification on the "2yr pro". As I read from articles, it is players who have completed their 2nd year pro at the time of the draft. A player like Killington would be finishing his 2nd year pro days after the draft. Thus players like Killington and Gillies would both be exempt.

My main question is around the 25% rule. From my understanding, the rule is that every team must expose a minimum of "the previous years cap" not 25% of "what a team spent against the cap the previous year. That means that EVERY team needs to expose approximately 18M in the draft (including expiring contracts).

Some teams spending close to the minimum may have to expire very high contracts. Off the top of my head.. Jordan Staal in Carolina.. Bobrovsky in Columbus..
I'm not sure who the lowest spending teams are, but a lot of teams may sign (2016 version of) Glencross to 1yr/3m contracts instead of a PTO.

I still think the Flames will score a goalie or 2.

Also to remember is that even if your team is far too deep, you can only lose 1 or 2 players. Even if the Flames are far deeper than we think in a years time, we might lose a player we don't want too, but we won't lose a franchise player. Not unless we bring risebrough back.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think second year pro will be two years in the NHL/AHL/ECHL/Euro Leagues after being drafted (or maybe signed for Euro players). It was suggested a while ago that one of the biggest things GMs were struggling with was the possibility of losing good young players, which leads me to think someone like Poirier and Shinkaruk would be considered second year pros.

[Coach]

I don't mind the way this is shaking up. For the contentious issues, this is how I would like to see it happen:

- Drafted players not under contract should not be eligible. They are not yet employees of the NHL. You can make a case for players from the CHL, as they need to be under contract 2 years after draft or re-enter the draft anyways. That is where the expansion teams should have a shot at those players, like everyone else, at the draft. Plus you get into grey areas with the NCAA players, I would just prefer to avoid it all together. You don't want teams trying to coerce kids to leave school before they want to/are ready just so they can avoid the expansion draft.

- NTC/NMC players are eligible for the draft, but they must waive to go to the team. So it's a risk to take them, but also a risk to expose them. If Vegas wants to blow a pick on a player that may not waive, fine. If the Predators want to leave Weber exposed and risk having him waive, that's up to them.

[troutman]

Rumors from Quebec City:

A number of renovations have been undertaken for the new arena, which is unusual for a brand new building.

People have tracked a number of unusual flights between Quebec and Raleigh.

Perhaps Quebec is not an expansion city, but a relocation target.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by troutman

Rumors from Quebec City:

A number of renovations have been undertaken for the new arena, which is unusual for a brand new building.

People have tracked a number of unusual flights between Quebec and Raleigh.

Perhaps Quebec is not an expansion city, but a relocation target.

Wouldn't surprise me. Quebec is a prime candidate for shotgun relocation. Built-in fan base, ready building, ownership would likely rather pay the relocation fee than the ridiculous expansion fee.

It wouldn't surprise me if the NHL told them during their expansion bid to just be patient because there are at least 2 or 3 candidates for relocation in the next few years.

I think Seattle will eventually be the same, while a Toronto 2 team is likely looked at as a big $$ expansion deal later on.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Koivu - NMC; 9.18M real money and age 35 so no way he's picked...just though his contract structure was interesting

Holy Snackie S'mores!

I thought you HAD to be mistaken, but lo and behold, Mikko Koivu really does have a $9.18m season coming up.

Wow.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by blender

Nobody loses much in an expansion draft unless you have an embarrassment of riches. The expansion team(s) is/are going to suck.

You still only lose 1 player if there is a one team expansion and two if a two team - so know one loses that much

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Burner

You still only lose 1 player if there is a one team expansion and two if a two team - so know one loses that much

I think he means quality, not quantity.