Read the Players Tribune piece by Mike Peluso. His life is a mess.
At least he is alive I guess. Bob Probert, Derek Boogard ,Rick Rypien, Wade Belak, Todd Ewen
Getting knocked out in a fight causes brain injuries. Heck, even getting pounded in the head and not being knocked out causes brain trauma.
You can enjoy and support fighting, but it seems many here are in denial about the effect it has on the lives of players and their families.
Boogaard overdosed. Rypien suffered from bi-polar disorder IIRC. Ewen didn't have CTE. Belak suffered from depression, but there is no evidence that was due to brain trauma, for all we know he was depressed before he was a fighter. Probert suffered from alcoholism and drug addiction.
I'm not saying fight doesn't cause problems but there is no definitive proof it is the cause of any of those deaths, let alone all of them.
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At the risk of being accused of being in denial Taco, what should we make of the thousands of players who fought in hockey and didn't end up like Probert, Peluso, Boogaard, etc?
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There is an old report from the NCAA that noted the concussion rate was actually higher in women's hockey than men's at that level. It was part of a larger story in the New York Times, I believe. But the general gist was that the amount of contact in the game coupled with the non-bodychecking nature meaning players were less prepared to take hits (i.e.: false sense of security mostly) that the risk of brain injuries were higher.
That being said, it is fair to note that Leeman4Gilmour's post doesn't answer the question presented. Even as a pro-fighting guy, I can't argue that fighting does cause more concussions than would be the case if fighting was banned. I don't believe banning fighting would make a significant difference in the number of concussions though.
Also, that does not touch the whole issue of CTE not being perfectly synonymous with concussions. One does not need the latter to be affected by the former. But short of ending sports like hockey and football entirely, it quite simply becomes a risk of participating. That is true regardless of the status of fighting.
Seems to be true across all sports that girls get more concussions than guys so not sure the bolded is true. Girls softball players get concussions twice as often as boy's baseball players. Girl's soccer players get concussions at twice the rate of boy's soccer players.
so...um, it's good to see McGrattan back playing? It had to be nerve racking for him just get back into games but to fight the guy who KO'ed you had to be both great and terrible. I'm glad he did what he did and to me it looks like he gave the guy a bit of a pat at the end. I don't care if you love fighting or hate it, there just seems to be a lot of really decent guys who do it and they have a lot of respect for each other.
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Boogaard overdosed. Rypien suffered from bi-polar disorder IIRC. Ewen didn't have CTE. Belak suffered from depression, but there is no evidence that was due to brain trauma, for all we know he was depressed before he was a fighter. Probert suffered from alcoholism and drug addiction.
I'm not saying fight doesn't cause problems but there is no definitive proof it is the cause of any of those deaths, let alone all of them.
There's a ton we don't know about CTE and concussions. Concussions aren't good and CTE isn't good. Just because you don't have CTE doesn't mean concussions haven't effected your brain or led to depression.
How many hockey players have killed themselves and how many of those were fighters? Seems like a fairly strong correlation at least anecdotally.
Boogaard overdosed. Rypien suffered from bi-polar disorder IIRC. Ewen didn't have CTE. Belak suffered from depression, but there is no evidence that was due to brain trauma, for all we know he was depressed before he was a fighter. Probert suffered from alcoholism and drug addiction.
I'm not saying fight doesn't cause problems but there is no definitive proof it is the cause of any of those deaths, let alone all of them.
While there isn't definitive proof of those particular deaths, there never could be. You're asking for the impossible. It's it likely a contributor? You'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see the correlation.
The link between concussions and suicide is very, very, very strong.
There's a ton we don't know about CTE and concussions. Concussions aren't good and CTE isn't good. Just because you don't have CTE doesn't mean concussions haven't effected your brain or led to depression.
How many hockey players have killed themselves and how many of those were fighters? Seems like a fairly strong correlation at least anecdotally.
It certainly seems like something that is worth looking into.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Getting knocked out in a fight causes brain injuries. Heck, even getting pounded in the head and not being knocked out causes brain trauma.
You can enjoy and support fighting, but it seems many here are in denial about the effect it has on the lives of players and their families.
getting knocked out from a body check does the same thing, or from falling, or from goalies taking a puck off the helmet. If you take away all possibilities for concussions we are left with ping pong.
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Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
THIS is why people make fun of Edmonton. When will this stupid city figure it out? They continue to kick their own ass every day, it's impossible not to make fun of them.
getting knocked out from a body check does the same thing, or from falling, or from goalies taking a puck off the helmet. If you take away all possibilities for concussions we are left with ping pong.
To me it comes down to what is the core requirements to play the sport.
Checking (at levels that allow it) key
Goalies using their noodle to make saves key (but not ideal)
Fighting I would suggest isn't a key component of hockey
While I agree that concussions can arise from all those things you mentioned, some are integral to playing hockey, while 1 is not.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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There have been posts here about when fighting stops or will stop in Hockey.
My question is when does it start? What age/level is it acceptable?
Junior.
Sometimes you see fights in Midget, but they aren't very common (A few punches to the head with a full cage on I don't really consider to be a fight).
Junior is where helmets start to get ripped off and people really start going toe-to-toe.
IMO, this is where the biggest change needs to happen. There should be no joy taken from a crowd watching two under-age kids bareknuckle box on a slippery hard surface. Should be automatic suspensions for fighting, and fines to the team's management/coaches.
For the NHL, I really think more discretion should be given to the refs for what warrants a fight. They are on the ice, they hear the things said, they feel the tensions in the game.
- After a dirty hit: No instigator. Original penalty called to offending player plus 5 min majors for fighting.
- resulting from growing tensions in a scrum: 5 min majors for both.
- Off a draw or any "staged" fight: ejection and automatic 1 game suspension for both players and fine for coaches/management.
- Assaulting a player (AKA Darnell Nurse), or engaging a player in a fight for a legal play (clean hit): Game ejection and automatic 5 game suspension.
My reasoning: You will never get fighting completely out of the game. It will just happen, and those are the fights people enjoy and the ones that gets teammates pumped up. The staged fighting between goons really needs to go as does the assaults that take place after clean plays. Those are the things that should have very harsh punishments. And refs need to have more cojones to actually kick players out.
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Last edited by Coach; 03-17-2016 at 03:14 PM.
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Sometimes you see fights in Midget, but they aren't very common (A few punches to the head with a full cage on I don't really consider to be a fight).
Junior is where helmets start to get ripped off and people really start going toe-to-toe.
IMO, this is where the biggest change needs to happen. There should be no joy taken from a crowd watching two under-age kids bareknuckle box on a slippery hard surface. Should be automatic suspensions for fighting, and fines to the team's management/coaches.
For the NHL, I really think more discretion should be given to the refs for what warrants a fight. They are on the ice, they hear the things said, they feel the tensions in the game.
- After a dirty hit: No instigator. Original penalty called to offending player plus 5 min majors for fighting.
- resulting from growing tensions in a scrum: 5 min majors for both.
- Off a draw or any "staged" fight: ejection and automatic 1 game suspension for both players and fine for coaches/management.
- Assaulting a player (AKA Darnell Nurse), or engaging a player in a fight for a legal play (clean hit): Game ejection and automatic 5 game suspension.
My reasoning: You will never get fighting completely out of the game. It will just happen, and those are the fights people enjoy and the ones that gets teammates pumped up. The staged fighting between goons really needs to go as does the assaults that take place after clean plays. Those are the things that should have very harsh punishments. And refs need to have more cojones to actually kick players out.
I actually think we have discussed this before, Matty and agreed on a lot of points.
I was at the Rebels v Hitmen game this weekend and the place went nuts when there was a fight. People forget that these are young kids.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
While there isn't definitive proof of those particular deaths, there never could be. You're asking for the impossible. It's it likely a contributor? You'd have to be pretty obtuse to not see the correlation.
The link between concussions and suicide is very, very, very strong.
There is a link between depression and suicide too. And do you know what most depressed people do? They hurt themselves in some way or another. Some do it by cutting, some get into fights, some do dangerous things to make them feel something different... Etc. I've said it before and I will again, show me these guys weren't depressed before becoming fighters and I will pay more attention.
And as C4L pointed out there are more concussions from hits than fights
My reasoning: You will never get fighting completely out of the game. It will just happen, and those are the fights people enjoy and the ones that gets teammates pumped up. The staged fighting between goons really needs to go as does the assaults that take place after clean plays. Those are the things that should have very harsh punishments. And refs need to have more cojones to actually kick players out.
10 games first time you fight, 20 games the third, 40 games the forth and 82 games for the fourth fight within say a two year window. After a team gets its second fighting suspension, the coach gets suspended for 5 games and then the coaching suspension increases by 5 games for each subsequent fight.
Fighting will be gone quick.
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There is a link between depression and suicide too. And do you know what most depressed people do? They hurt themselves in some way or another. Some do it by cutting, some get into fights, some do dangerous things to make them feel something different... Etc. I've said it before and I will again, show me these guys weren't depressed before becoming fighters and I will pay more attention.
And as C4L pointed out there are more concussions from hits than fights
So the NHL is taking depressed guys who otherwise couldnt make it in the NHL and offering them a chance to get their brains bashed in? I guess who cares as theyd be hurting themselves elsewhere.
To me it comes down to what is the core requirements to play the sport.
Checking (at levels that allow it) key
Goalies using their noodle to make saves key (but not ideal)
Fighting I would suggest isn't a key component of hockey
While I agree that concussions can arise from all those things you mentioned, some are integral to playing hockey, while 1 is not.
Don't you think it is a little self serving to argue that checking is "key" while also noting that there are numerous levels that do not allow it?
10 games first time you fight, 20 games the third, 40 games the forth and 82 games for the fourth fight within say a two year window. After a team gets its second fighting suspension, the coach gets suspended for 5 games and then the coaching suspension increases by 5 games for each subsequent fight.
Fighting will be gone quick.
If they do that they better do the same thing with headshots then.
And if they are serious about head trauma they need to regulate goalies helmets more closely (this season is the first that they have put any sort of guidelines in place that must be met) - Hiller's helmet is made by his buddy - ridiculous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotHotHeat
THIS is why people make fun of Edmonton. When will this stupid city figure it out? They continue to kick their own ass every day, it's impossible not to make fun of them.
