THN Futurewatch Flames ranking

[David Struch]

I would view Ortio as a graduate now, here I have separated our prospects into two catagories AHL pro's & Junior/NCAA/Europe

1. Gillies
2. Kylington
3. Poirier
4. Klimchuk
5. Shinkaruk
6. Wotherspoon
7. Kulak
8. Grant
9. Agostino
10. Hathaway
11. Smith
12. Van Brabant
13. Arnold
14. Hamilton
15. Sieloff
16. Elson
17. Shore
18. Carroll
19. Culkin
20. Morrison

1. McDonald
2. Jankowski
3. Andersson
4. Pollock
5. Hickey
6. Mangiapane
7. Schneider
8. Kanzig
9. Mattson
10. Karnaukhov
11. Gilmour
12. Rafikov
13. Bruce
14. Harrison
15. Deblouw

Boy, we sure have come a long way since the days of only having a handfull of guys on the Lowell Lock Monsters (Sonnenberg, Bembridge, Loyns, Evans, Krahn)

[polak]

With the crazy season Mangiapane is having, why isn't there more hype?

[Poe969]

Is Kanzig actually doing that well?

[Red Menace]

I'm more excited for those Barrie boys than almost anyone else on that list....

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by polak

With the crazy season Mangiapane is having, why isn't there more hype?

Because his size says he may not be able to transfer his game to the pro level. Interesting prospect for sure though.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Because his size says he may not be able to transfer his game to the pro level. Interesting prospect for sure though.

I know his listed height and weight of 5'10" and 180 lbs may be slightly exaggerated, but raise your hand if all the talk about his size made you think he was more Gaudreau sized.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Because his size says he may not be able to transfer his game to the pro level. Interesting prospect for sure though.

Sounds like another player who was doubted due to his size.

I think Mangiapane is easily the most underrated prospect in our pool. He has way better stats in the juniors than Poirier did while in a stronger league, and his game is more easily transition able than Poirier's. Heck his stats are better than Bennett (who is another player who thought would take a little longer to get to NHL level).

In 2 to 3 years, I can see him on the 2nd line.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by polak

With the crazy season Mangiapane is having, why isn't there more hype?

Because you shouldn't be evaluating players on hype. You should be evaluating players on their ability to make it to the NHL and contribute at the NHL level. Mangiapane will have to show he has the skill and toughness at the pro-level to garner any hype. Intriguing player, but has a lot of issues to work through to get to the NHL. Let's see how he does at prospects camp in July before getting excited over him.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Sounds like another player who was doubted due to his size.

I think Mangiapane is easily the most underrated prospect in our pool. He has way better stats in the juniors than Poirier did while in a stronger league, and his game is more easily transition able than Poirier's. Heck his stats are better than Bennett (who is another player who thought would take a little longer to get to NHL level).

In 2 to 3 years, I can see him on the 2nd line.

Bennett had 24 pts in 11 games as a post-draft 18 year old.

But yeah, Mangiapane's numbers are impressive.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because you shouldn't be evaluating players on hype. You should be evaluating players on their ability to make it to the NHL and contribute at the NHL level. Mangiapane will have to show he has the skill and toughness at the pro-level to garner any hype. Intriguing player, but has a lot of issues to work through to get to the NHL. Let's see how he does at prospects camp in July before getting excited over him.

So why did Gaudreau have so much hype prior to entering the NHL?

He was great last prospects camp btw. 3rd best behind Bennett and Jankowski.

Honestly, I think we can start getting excited by this guy now. At first there were question marks on his huge spike in point production from his first to second season in the WHL. It was possible that he was benefiting from line-mates more than anything else. But it's very clear now that last year was no fluke.

Nobody wants to look like a crazy homer by hyping up a recent 6th round pick. But those who have been following him this year are sold on him.

[Bingo]

I wish we had prospect rankings from 2011 and 2012 they'd be interesting as I'm sure there would be some doubt on Gaudreau on those lists as well.

Gaudreau is pretty special so you can't just apply the same trajectory to Mangiapane but it's certainly an interesting thing to keep an eye on.

He certainly stood out in Penticton last year, and then blew the doors off in the OHL when returning.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So why did Gaudreau have so much hype prior to entering the NHL?

He did? I seem to recall a lot more people saying he didn't have a chance of playing in the NHL because of his size, plenty of them from this site.

He was great last prospects camp btw. 3rd best behind Bennett and Jankowski.

Good to know. We'll see if he can step up and be the best in camp this year, like Gaudreau did each every camp he went to. I think that is going to be the thing for Mangiapane, continuing to show he can excel in every opportunity afforded him.

Honestly, I think we can start getting excited by this guy now. At first there were question marks on his huge spike in point production from his first to second season in the WHL. It was possible that he was benefiting from line-mates more than anything else. But it's very clear now that last year was no fluke.

You can get excited about anyone you like. Just be prepared to have your heart broken along the way. I would prefer to see how he does against men and how he deals with the speed of the pro game before getting excited about him. He could be awesome, or he could be Sven Baertschi.

Nobody wants to look like a crazy homer by hyping up a recent 6th round pick. But those who have been following him this year are sold on him.

Sold on him to do what exactly? I mean, how is that two way game? Don't forget the team he was drafted by. He will have to be good on both sides of the puck. And how is his truculence level? With Johnny Hockey in the fold it is going to be extremely difficult for another small player to carve out a position on this hockey team. There are a lot of roadblocks in his way. I hope he turns out to be the steal of the draft, but it is going to be a tough journey for him.

[1qqaaz]

One difference between Gaudrean and Mangiapane is that Gaudreau's stats improved tremendously year to year. Comparatively, Mangiapane's production is just a bit higher than last year's.

Also, there are more 100 point players in the CHL than there are rookie point per game players in the NCAA. Not to mention, Gaudreau was an 18 year old rookie in the NCAA, while Mangiapane is almost 20 now.

But Gaudreau is/was Gaudreau. It's almost unfair to compare.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by New Era

He did? I seem to recall a lot more people saying he didn't have a chance of playing in the NHL because of his size, plenty of them from this site.

Well I'm sorry but you have a terrible memory. Of course there were still doubters but the guy was 2PPG in the NCAA which is unheard of. Do you even know what hype means? You don't generate hype by playing in the NHL... You live up to the hype(or not).

Are you saying there was no hype surrounding McDavid or Eichel before playing in the NHL? I sure hope not.

Originally Posted by New Era

Good to know. We'll see if he can step up and be the best in camp this year, like Gaudreau did each every camp he went to. I think that is going to be the thing for Mangiapane, continuing to show he can excel in every opportunity afforded him.

This is also not true. Gaudreau didn't really step up and garner any hype prior to getting held off his World Junior team. He was more determined after that incident and he'll tell you that himself. He was also in prospect camps when we had literally 0 blue chip prospects.

Originally Posted by New Era

You can get excited about anyone you like. Just be prepared to have your heart broken along the way. I would prefer to see how he does against men and how he deals with the speed of the pro game before getting excited about him. He could be awesome, or he could be Sven Baertschi.

So you won't even get a little excited for a player until he plays in the NHL? Cool, good for you. Some of us like to follow our prospects progress and have a little something called optimism. You should probably not view/post in this thread if you don't care about these prospects.

Originally Posted by New Era

Sold on him to do what exactly? I mean, how is that two way game? Don't forget the team he was drafted by. He will have to be good on both sides of the puck. And how is his truculence level? With Johnny Hockey in the fold it is going to be extremely difficult for another small player to carve out a position on this hockey team. There are a lot of roadblocks in his way. I hope he turns out to be the steal of the draft, but it is going to be a tough journey for him.

You can say this for just about any prospect. They are always prospects until they graduate to the NHL or become career AHLers. I assume you haven't followed him at all or you'd know that he's got a solid defensive game and plays bigger than his size.

Instead of crapping on us for being excited about a prospect, why don't you spend some time reading up on them...

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

One difference between Gaudrean and Mangiapane is that Gaudreau's stats improved tremendously year to year. Comparatively, Mangiapane's production is just a bit higher than last year's.

Also, there are more 100 point players in the CHL than there are rookie point per game players in the NCAA. Not to mention, Gaudreau was an 18 year old rookie in the NCAA, while Mangiapane is almost 20 now.

But Gaudreau is/was Gaudreau. It's almost unfair to compare.

I wasn't comparing them. I was throwing out an example to show how dumb New Era's point was that players don't get hyped until they play in the NHL. Like what?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

So why did Gaudreau have so much hype prior to entering the NHL?

He was great last prospects camp btw. 3rd best behind Bennett and Jankowski.

Honestly, I think we can start getting excited by this guy now. At first there were question marks on his huge spike in point production from his first to second season in the WHL. It was possible that he was benefiting from line-mates more than anything else. But it's very clear now that last year was no fluke.

Nobody wants to look like a crazy homer by hyping up a recent 6th round pick. But those who have been following him this year are sold on him.

To answer your question, the types of numbers Gaudreau put up hadn't been done in the NCAA for what.. a decade? That hype was very well deserved.

Mangiapane is a fine prospect. In a shortened season, Baertschi put up incredible numbers too, and did it in his draft +1 season.

Other guys have put up huge numbers in the CHL in their 18 and especially 19 year old seasons as well. Some of them have gone on to have very, very good careers in the NHL, others just had a cup of coffee, and many didn't even get a sniff.

I like Mangiapane - I thought he looked really, really good in the prospects camp and stood out nicely in his peer group. I think this season was somewhat expected in terms of production (give or take anyways). I think he is a very legitimate prospect, and I am happy the Flames drafted him.

I am personally just waiting until he turns pro and tempering my expectations until he does so. If he lights it up at the pro level, I will be extremely happy. If he doesn't, I think you can't write him off either. My estimation is that he will probably require a few pro seasons at least while he puts on size. Why?

I see him more like a St. Louis type more than a Gaudreau type. St. Louis had outstanding skill as well (obviously), but he was not as effective until he managed to really put on the weight. Gaudreau will probably be the most effective at his size now or slightly larger, rather than pumping up and perhaps affecting his agility. Just different types of prospects in my opinion, that play the game differently. In fact, I peg Mangiapane as a bit more towards the Gallagher scale than the Gaudreau scale.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Mangiapane end up in Europe in 3-5 years, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him playing top 6 with the Flames in 3 years either and having the fanbase love his play.

One thing I will say is this - there is a heck of a lot more of these undersized scorers breaking into the NHL and finding success, than ever before. Even back then, there were few sub 5'10" in the league who didn't pack on weight like Fleury. Steve Sullivan comes to mind. Pat Lafontaine.

Now you have Ennis, Gallagher, Atkinson, Gaudreau, etc., etc., etc.,. GMs are starting to learn that undersized skill players can't be simply passed over, or you risk losing a possible critical piece to your team. They used to be signed just for their AHL affiliates back in the day. Now they are being drafted, developed and are not only making the NHL, but becoming stars.

I can see why people are excited about him. I am optimistic about him, but just tempering my own expectations at least until I see him in the AHL next season.

The one thing I am really happy about is the fact he got 50 goals this year. That leads his team by 11. Getting 50 goals in any league isn't easy. His finishing ability really bodes well for the future.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Well I'm sorry but you have a terrible memory. Of course there were still doubters but the guy was 2PPG in the NCAA which is unheard of. Do you even know what hype means? You don't generate hype by playing in the NHL... You live up to the hype(or not).

Better check your memory, friend. You don't have to go too far on this site to see the reactions and discussions from when he was drafted, to his first prospects camp, to each of his years as a prospect. Lots of detractors. A lot more than there were supporters.

Are you saying there was no hype surrounding McDavid or Eichel before playing in the NHL? I sure hope not.

Irrelevant comparison. The number one and two draft picks, one of which is considered a generational talent, will naturally generate more hype than a kid drafted in the 4th round. Not only that, the two players in question had the physical maturity to play in the NHL.

This is also not true. Gaudreau didn't really step up and garner any hype prior to getting held off his World Junior team. He was more determined after that incident and he'll tell you that himself.

Nope. Gaudreau stood out each camp. He didn't get much press because of his size, but he was still a stand out from camp one.

So you won't even get a little excited for a player until he plays in the NHL? Cool, good for you. Some of us like to follow our prospects progress and have a little something called optimism. You should probably not view/post in this thread if you don't care about these prospects.

Didn't say NHL. I said professionally. We'll see if Mangiapane can keep up with the rigors of the AHL before even suggesting a NHL position for him. There was a damn good reason why he was drafted in the 6th round of the second draft he was eligible for.

You can say this for just about any prospect. They are always prospects until they graduate to the NHL or become career AHLers. I assume you haven't followed him at all or you'd know that he's got a solid defensive game and plays bigger than his size.

I've seem a few of his games this year, and he's a typical junior scorer when it comes to two way play. I like his skill set, but I don't know how it will translate to the pros. It's a different game when everyone is big and can skate as good or better than you. Space is something he will have to learn to live without. Can he adapt to that? We'll see when he takes the next step to the AHL. Whether that is next season is also yet to be determined. IIRC he doesn't have a contract yet.

Instead of crapping on us for being excited about a prospect, why don't you spend some time reading up on them...

Relax. I'm not crapping on you. If I was crapping on you you'd know it. I'm telling you that this kid has a very long and difficult road to travel to make it to the NHL. There is really nothing to get excited about at this point because junior hockey is littered with small players who were big time scorers that couldn't cut it in the professional ranks. Maybe you should read up on some of them so you get some insight into the mountain Mangiapane has to climb. I recommend you go back and take a look at the top scorers from the OHL from the past decade and see how many of them made the jump, taking size into the equation. That might temper your enthusiasm a bit.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Is Kanzig actually doing that well?

While he's better, I don't think Kanzig is doing that well. He's smarter than he used to be, which is a good sign. The coach knows how to use him.

But his speed hasn't improved as much as I would have liked (although I am not surprised). And this makes me doubt him as a prospect. Kanzig is a top 4 dman on the Hitmen as a 21 year old. He's 3 years older than Bean, but nowhere near as good all around.

But then again, Bean will be a top 15 pick for a reason.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Ya I'm not going to bother continuing this pointless debate of semantics.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Mangiapane named OHL player of the week
http://new.ontariohockeyleague.com/a...er-of-the-week

11 points in 3 games, kid has been on fire lately.

You'd think he should at least be a couple spots higher in the prospect rankings. Can't wait to see him in the AHL next season.