Quebec's Racism

[MatsNaslund]

Some people say that racial profiling at airports and border crossings for security purposes is needed in a post 9-11 world, but what separates Canada from the US is that we have something called the 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms'. The Charter protects us from the government openly doing racial profiling because under the charter all Canadians are equal no matter if they've got 10 generations here or just recieved their citizenship papers in the mail this morning. Legally speaking racial profiling isn't allowed in Canada. Practically it is another matter. A lot of the racism is subtle and hidden in Canada. You really don't notice until you go out to bars, restaurants and stores and see how people of different colours get treated for the exact same thing. J

ust today I was at Walmart and the retail person doing checkout was chatting about all the golf and good times she had in the same place that the customer she as helping had just visited. They spent like 5 minutes talking and the person only bought 2 things. Next there was an Arab lady with a headscarf whom the retail clerk never even acknowledged let alone saying hight. The only words she had with the lady was the total due for her purchases. I was next in line and didn't recieved a warm welcome either. I was gathering my things and heard the retail person say 'hi' and talk for a bit with the next person who just happneed to be white. Coincidence? nope. Its just your everyday racism.


It is also the charter that protected Lebanese-Canadians (many of them dual citizens) from being denied government help when they wanted to leave Lebanon. Some people (mostly redneck MPs of the alliance/conservative party) tried to label them as `Canadians of convienience`, but Canadian Law is clear on this matter. In Canada the law is that when a person becomes a citizen of Canada they can also maintain allegience and citizenship to another country. This concept is very hard for Americans to understand because in America if someone gives allegience to another country they can be tried for treason. In Canada we have a different viewpoint to the point that one of our largest political parties in the Federal parliament is a separatist party (the BQ). In other countries they would have sent in tanks at the mere thought of the creation of such a party. Here we have even allowed 2 referendums.
Racial profiling has some pluses, but there are far more negatives when using it. It is one thing to screen people at the airport. I don't expect anyone who is white to understand this. What would they know about racism/racial profiling (same thing)>?

Just because 90% of the shoplifting is done in a store by people of a certain ethnic group does not mean that the next person to walk into the store of that ethnic group is a shoplifter. Has the Maher Arar ordeal of racial profiling taught us nothing?


It is another thing to bar people from a certain bar just because they are a certain ethnicity. Another thing is how this will effect job prospects. When I was in university I graduated with a very multicultural group. I don't know if its just me but I often wonder how many of the white students got jobs so easily after graduation while others such as myself had to struggle for some time before we made it into a job. I'm not an immigrant. I was born and raised here. Many of us applied at the same places. I wonder if things would be different if my Resume had a name like John Smith on it?

Last year there was a judge in Ontario who lashed out at a cop for pulling over black guys driving sports cars just simply because they were black. That was his probable cause. Again being black is not something that you can change.

Where does it end? Will I be able to demand my Travel Agent only book flights where there are no Muslims aboard as passengers and staff on a flight just because I may have some blind redneck hatred of Muslims due to the actions of other people, from other countries about 5 years ago who just happened to be Muslims? Can I ask the same from the travel agent of flights without Christian staff or passengers because of Timothy Mcveigh's terrorist attack? Really where does it end? Will certain people of a certain ethnic group be rounded up and jailed as was done to David Suzuki (then a child) and his family back during WWII only because their ethnicity was Japanese?

People should be judged and treated according to who they are as a person and their actions. Not the colour of their skin. Anyone who tells you differently is a RACIST.

[Shazam]

That's why whenever I serve white people food, I make sure to spit in it first. Har har.

[transplant99]

Just today I was at Walmart and the retail person doing checkout was chatting about all the golf and good times she had in the same place that the customer she as helping had just visited. They spent like 5 minutes talking and the person only bought 2 things. Next there was an Arab lady with a headscarf whom the retail clerk never even acknowledged let alone saying hight. The only words she had with the lady was the total due for her purchases. I was next in line and didn't recieved a warm welcome either. I was gathering my things and heard the retail person say 'hi' and talk for a bit with the next person who just happneed to be white. Coincidence? nope. Its just your everyday racism

Now, before i tell you my story, let me say that rascism is not acceptable in any way, shape or form in my opinion. I do think, however, that many things are mistaken for rascism that should not be. Profiling being one of those. If there is a bank robbery and the suspects are 6' white guys, does it not make sense for the police to concentrate on looking for people who fit that profile, rather than looking at everyone equally? Just an example.

Now, just yesterday was my wife's birthday. I had decided to cook a special dinner for the occasion and needed to go to the supermarket to get the ingredients. Now, I ive in the South and obviously am exposed to a larger number of blacks than most Canadians are, as there is way more than up there.

So the store i frequent, employs a majority of black folks, both as cashiers and shelf stockers/produce people. Well i am in line and the young black lady that is manning the register is engaging a black coule in front of me who are there to buy groceries. Lots of chatter about this and that, and whatever as they had a boatload of stuff. Hellos and goodbyes to them. I step up and its "do you have your advatage card", i hand it to her. Next words out of her mouth to me are "$47.23". I pay her, and grab my wares and start out of the market.

now there was a black guy behind me and she says hello, how ya doin etc etc etc.

Was that rascism?? I certainly do not look at it that way at all. Its about comfort levels and the difference in cultures IMO. Not a bad thing in any way shape or form, and certainly nothing I would ever be concerned about.

[BlackEleven]

In regards to the original article...

"To be sure, Mr. Lepine hated women, Mr. Fabrikant hated his engineering colleagues, and Mr. Gill hated everyone. But all of them had been marginalized in a society that valued 'pure laine.'

I'm an anglophone in Quebec; I don't feel marginalized or see why a reason why someone would. If anything, the situtation is reversed. You can live in Montreal and not speak French at all and be accomodate quite easily. Almost everyone speaks English, signs are posted in both languages, municipal and provincial forms/documents are available in English.

Further, Monteral is a highly multi-cultural city, probably one of the most on the continent. Select three random people from Montreal, and theres a pretty good chance that none of them will be "pure French". Its completely feasible, and in fact, highly probable that the lingustic/ethnic of the three men is nothing more than coincidence. The only thing the three shooters did have in common, was some serious mental problems. The conclusions drawn by the author are completely assinine in my opinion.

[underGRADFlame]

I'm just gonna throw in my 2 cents on this debate. First, yes racism exists in our society, it exists in every society, it is now way unique to north america I'm sure if every one was blind on this planet there would be one group that is prejudice towards high talkers and another group prejudice towards people with bad B.O. (and rightfully so).
I am a mid 20's white male, I've been discriminated against too, probably no were near as much as say the black or asian in my situation, but it does happen.
The one thing I find very telling in this threat is the use of the word "redneck", a derogatory term for a white person. Minorities throw this word around on a whim but if I were to use the "N" word or any other racial slur, I'm a racist. It goes both ways.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Who might they be?

Quotes are super-easy to use, and make reading your responses a lot simpler.

[ quote ] type your stuff [ /quote ]

Just take out the spaces between the 'quotes' and the []

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

Select three random people from Montreal, and theres a pretty good chance that none of them will be "pure French".

It's also highly likely that they'll start a menage a trios

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

The one thing I find very telling in this threat is the use of the word "redneck", a derogatory term for a white person. Minorities throw this word around on a whim but if I were to use the "N" word or any other racial slur, I'm a racist. It goes both ways.

I agree with you that redneck is a derogatory term and certainly an insult. I'm not condoning it's use towards other.
However IMO, it's diffirent then a racial slur. Words such as the "N" word are used to describe people of a certain skin colour, reguardless of their ideologies/beliefs.
The term redneck is an insult to a person of certain beliefs/ideologies. Not just based on skin colour.
I would consider it more akin to calling a Liberal a "commie". It's about their attitude, not race.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Your right, you never did, I apologize, but you did call me a few other names.

You're right. I apologize too. Thanks for the debate.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

I agree with you that redneck is a derogatory term and certainly an insult. I'm not condoning it's use towards other.
However IMO, it's diffirent then a racial slur. Words such as the "N" word are used to describe people of a certain skin colour, reguardless of their ideologies/beliefs.
The term redneck is an insult to a person of certain beliefs/ideologies. Not just based on skin colour.
I would consider it more akin to calling a Liberal a "commie". It's about their attitude, not race.

Winsor, have you ever heard someone call a black person are "redneck"? I haven't, its a racial slur because its directed towards "white folk" as a insult. It's a racial slur if its towards what you are(ei white, black hispanic) as opposide to what you believe in(ie, democracy, communisim)

I don't think anyone could call me a name that would insult me, ie " whitey, cracker, honkey, redneck" maybe "oiler fan" but thats it. Just to bring some levaty to the discution, heres one of my fav SNL skits of all time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk9ECvjma0E .

[transplant99]

Again...someone can call me a redneck all they like. I wont be offended, simply because "i ain't one"!!! (But living in the Appalachia I sure as hell can tell you when i see one)

Here's the history....

Redneck, in modern usage, predominantly refers to a particular stereotype of people who may be found in many regions of the United States or Canada. The word can be used either as a pejorative or as a matter of pride, depending on context.

Usage of the term redneck generally differs from hick and hillbilly, because rednecks reject or resist assimilation into the dominant culture, while hicks and hillbillies theoretically are isolated from the dominant culture. In this way, the term redneck is similar to the word cracker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck

[FlamingLonghorn]

Let me ask one thing. Has anyone here waited tables? Those who have will know why the question is pertinent.

I also feel the effects of prejudice as I have several visible tattoos including a full sleeve on my right arm. But there is a vast difference btw it and racism as I chose to have the work done. There is also many plusses to having tattoos, but I have a feeling those will disappear when I hit 40.

[jolinar of malkshor]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by MatsNaslund

Some people say that racial profiling at airports and border crossings for security purposes is needed in a post 9-11 world, but what separates Canada from the US is that we have something called the 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms'. The Charter protects us from the government openly doing racial profiling because under the charter all Canadians are equal no matter if they've got 10 generations here or just recieved their citizenship papers in the mail this morning. Legally speaking racial profiling isn't allowed in Canada. Practically it is another matter. A lot of the racism is subtle and hidden in Canada. You really don't notice until you go out to bars, restaurants and stores and see how people of different colours get treated for the exact same thing. J

But it's ok for the Charter of rights and Freedoms to discriminate against white males right? S15 allows for affirmative action. Really fair.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

Winsor, have you ever heard someone call a black person are "redneck"? I haven't, its a racial slur because its directed towards "white folk" as a insult. It's a racial slur if its towards what you are(ei white, black hispanic) as opposide to what you believe in(ie, democracy, communisim)

No, I havn't heard anyone call a black person a redneck. Redneck is directed at white people. You are correct.
All I'm saying is that redneck is directed at a white person of certain actions/ideas. Not just any old white person
have you ever heard a liberal being called a redneck?

And as I've said before, I'm not justifying its use. I think it's derogatory as well.

[transplant99]

All I'm saying is that redneck is directed at a white person of certain actions/ideas. Not just any old white person

Not true down here.

Many a black guy has uttered the word towards white guys of various looks/classes. Though again...i cant see what it matters.

The common one of late that i have been privvy too is...cracker. Though again, call me a cracker and i will laugh.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

In regards to the original article...



I'm an anglophone in Quebec; I don't feel marginalized or see why a reason why someone would. If anything, the situtation is reversed. You can live in Montreal and not speak French at all and be accomodate quite easily. Almost everyone speaks English, signs are posted in both languages, municipal and provincial forms/documents are available in English.

Further, Monteral is a highly multi-cultural city, probably one of the most on the continent. Select three random people from Montreal, and theres a pretty good chance that none of them will be "pure French". Its completely feasible, and in fact, highly probable that the lingustic/ethnic of the three men is nothing more than coincidence. The only thing the three shooters did have in common, was some serious mental problems. The conclusions drawn by the author are completely assinine in my opinion.

I've been to Mtl four times, all times, and many during each visit francaphones have gone out of their way to be rude when they find out I don't speak French. Different restaurants and shopping downtown, the airport you name it.

Montreal and the rest of the province is addicted to making sure english is marginalized, (see the rules the language police force everyone to abide by)

They are running debt faster than you can say bankruptcy (they are the second poorest province next to NFLD if you look at debt per capita) they are bribing the federal gov't for support and god forbid you ever have a sign with english first or in a bigger font.

Montreal may be a multicultural city, but politically it and the rest of the province is a banana republic that are creating so much financial damage that future generations will be buried beyond belief.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

And how does the question hurt you. I mean I could see it if you were being accused of it but, simply asking if you are is better than not asking and assuming.

ok. does simply asking a guy wearing a turban if he's a terrorist hurt them? they're simply asking instead of assuming, right? asking a black guy if he's stolen any tv's recently?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

ok. does simply asking a guy wearing a turban if he's a terrorist hurt them? they're simply asking instead of assuming, right? asking a black guy if he's stolen any tv's recently?

This isn't an easy topic, but think of it this way. Surely it's inefficient to be patting down grandma at the airport.

If we get another airplane incident, and all of those in control of security have been waiving the charter of rights and freedoms flag have to go around and tell several hundred families that their loved one is dead. And the families ask could you have done anything to better ward off terrorists, and security says "ya, we could have profiled but we didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings".

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

This isn't an easy topic, but think of it this way. Surely it's inefficient to be patting down grandma at the airport.

If we get another airplane incident, and all of those in control of security have been waiving the charter of rights and freedoms flag have to go around and tell several hundred families that their loved one is dead. And the families ask could you have done anything to better ward off terrorists, and security says "ya, we could have profiled but we didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings".

Exactly. You want a safe country don't be so sensitive. I am not talking about giving up your rights, but don't yell racism everytime a minority gets looked at.

[Flames in 07]

The problem is that we can easily profile a security threat to an airplane, and since the downside is SO LARGE, I think things like insulting people, as awful as it is, is a fair trade for security.