Some semblance of faceoff prowess would vault Backlund into a vastly superior level of 3rd line center. He is so good positionally that it kind of makes up for it. But when you're losing faceoffs all of the time, you're always chasing..
That's not true. Most faceoffs are scramble draws anyways, not clean wins. Winning races compensates just fine for minor differences in faceoff percentages.
The last three seasons (2013-14 to Present), Giordano-Backlund-Brodie have a Corsi-Against of 42.70 and a CF% of 58.4% (42.3% offensive zone starts / 651:57 minutes together). And yes, they outscore the opposition in goals by a proportional amount.
To put that into some perspective, Toews, who is one of the best faceoff guys in the world, along with Keith and Hjalmarsson have a corsi-against of 53.24 and a CF% of 53.3% (48.7% offensive zone starts / 371:55 minutes together).
It's not quite on the level of Doughty-Kopitar-Muzzin who have a Corsi-Against of 41.31 and a CF% of 60.3% (56.0% offensive zone starts / 731:57 minutes together) but I'd say it's not that far off either. Kopitar is worse at faceoffs than Toews BTW.
The key thing to note though? Those two guys are #1 Centers. If we had a shut-down #1C on the level of those two (Auston Matthews?), we don't need Backlund to take on that high-level checking role. He could feast on a secondary checking role.
Backlund is a more effective centerman than the likes of Stoll that get paraded for their faceoff prowess. It's a lot more important to have the puck eventually than to win it on faceoffs. It's a myth that being poor at faceoffs means Backlund is always stuck chasing the play. At least at 5 on 5.
Penalty Killing? Why not put Backlund out there with Jooris? Then you have a guy on either side who can take faceoffs on his strong side only. A lot better idea than scratching Jooris so Brandon Bollig can "warn" the opponent not to score 5 goals.
Last edited by GranteedEV; 02-22-2016 at 01:17 PM.
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All due respect to your ideas GranteedEV, because they are solid, but there are still moments in games where you need a key face-off win in order to get out of a tough defensive position, i.e. playing against the other team's top line or beginning a penalty kill. These are the scenarios where you aren't going to waste your #1 center if you can avoid it, saving them instead for a moment where they can be on the ice against lesser players.
This is especially true in the Pacific where the other team's #1 centers are also very good defensively and also have the ability to dominate physically. Getting Monahan or Bennett away from the Kopitar's and Getzlaf's is sometimes the only way to beat those teams. Letting Backlund handle those matchups, is preferable, and the best way to begin those shifts is with a face off win and controlling possession. That way you have a better chance of winning the possession battle off the hop.
Backlund's one saving grace is that he's very good on takeaways, especially in the neutral zone, but in his own zone he's more likely to get outmatched physically, lending even more importance to the face-off win.
All of these qualities are dependent on each other, meaning they don't exist in a vacuum, and for some players face-offs are more important than others. I don't disagree that's it's less of a problem for Backlund than most centers, however, it's still a problem that keeps him from being an elite 2-way center. It's a skill, like any other, that can be learned and improved upon.
I look at a guy like Derek McKenzie on the Panthers and he wins almost 54% of his draws over his career, yet he's 5'11" and 181 pounds. What makes him different than Backlund? Experience is roughly equal and he's actually smaller than Backlund. Yet he finds a way to get it done. He's one of those guys that will do whatever it takes to win. Desire, effort, strategy, and some level of skill contribute to his execution of one of his most important duties: Winning key face-offs.
All I'm saying is it still matters on some level. To what level it matters varies from player to player, role to role, and team to team...but it still matters, quite a bit.
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All due respect to your ideas GranteedEV, because they are solid, but there are still moments in games where you need a key face-off win in order to get out of a tough defensive position, i.e. playing against the other team's top line or beginning a penalty kill. These are the scenarios where you aren't going to waste your #1 center if you can avoid it, saving them instead for a moment where they can be on the ice against lesser players.
This is especially true in the Pacific where the other team's #1 centers are also very good defensively and also have the ability to dominate physically. Getting Monahan or Bennett away from the Kopitar's and Getzlaf's is sometimes the only way to beat those teams. Letting Backlund handle those matchups, is preferable, and the best way to begin those shifts is with a face off win and controlling possession. That way you have a better chance of winning the possession battle off the hop.
Backlund's one saving grace is that he's very good on takeaways, especially in the neutral zone, but in his own zone he's more likely to get outmatched physically, lending even more importance to the face-off win.
All of these qualities are dependent on each other, meaning they don't exist in a vacuum, and for some players face-offs are more important than others. I don't disagree that's it's less of a problem for Backlund than most centers, however, it's still a problem that keeps him from being an elite 2-way center. It's a skill, like any other, that can be learned and improved upon.
I look at a guy like Derek McKenzie on the Panthers and he wins almost 54% of his draws over his career, yet he's 5'11" and 181 pounds. What makes him different than Backlund? Experience is roughly equal and he's actually smaller than Backlund. Yet he finds a way to get it done. He's one of those guys that will do whatever it takes to win. Desire, effort, strategy, and some level of skill contribute to his execution of one of his most important duties: Winning key face-offs.
All I'm saying is it still matters on some level. To what level it matters varies from player to player, role to role, and team to team...but it still matters, quite a bit.
I agree to a point but I am not one to value faceoffs as much as some. Derek McKenzie winning the faceoff isn't the reason why the Panthers are winning. You look at Backstrom who is barely better than Backlund, Kuznetsov who is much worse, and even Malkin.
You look at what coaches do, sure they put out their faceoff guys in key situations but more so they are always prepared whether you win or lose in the faceoff dot.
Mark Letestu is similar to Derek Mackenzie, where he wins a lot of faceoffs and is put in key situations but the Oilers are still the worse. Years ago when they had Jarett Stoll when he was an amazing faceoff guy, they were still terrible.
It's been said before that Backlund might suffer (in fan's eyes) from heightened expectations of him based on being a first-round pick at a time when the Flames had a lack of quality prospects.
To me he is a player I would hate to see on another team. I think that scenario would open people's eyes around here as to how good he is.
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Backlund is having a great season this year, he's putting up points, is a plus player on a minus team, he's been healthy(especially compared to his history of "odd injuries"). He's a 2-3 centre on a flickering flames team. If he were on a cup contender, a la Chicago, Washington, NYR, Kings, or even the Stars or Blues, Backlund is a #3 centre filling maybe 1 minute a night as a #2 kind of guy. The flames relying on a combo of Backlund and Stajan as the 2-3 C is not what cup teams are made of. Bennett needs to play his natural C position so that it can be a combo of #23 and #93 as the 1-2 centers (with #93 being the bonefied #1C of the future) and Backlund as the firm #3 and any combo of Stajan, Derek Grant, or someone as the #4. Backlund is the guy you want for #3 on the depth chart when your a cup contender. He's a good 2 way centre but a top 6 center is atleast within a percentage of winning their face-offs, being a career 47% is not top 6 centre quality (being good at takeaways isn't a saving grace...).
Moving forward Backs is not a piece that we trade away. He has tremendous value to a top 6(in the league) team. Instead he is a piece that is designated a roll and solidified into it where he succeeds on a consistent basis. We do that by helping #93 grow into his roll as a creative centre , and by having #23 keep on proving that he is the strong 2 way centre that is coveted most in this league.
Backlund is a very underrated player. The flames need to keep him firmly in the fold and appreciate him for what he is and what he does. He should be the best 3# centre in the league.
Backlund definitely gets underrated. Though I feel like there's room for more out of him offensively, he's been very consistent with his production for the last few years.
He's been on pace for basically 42 points for the last 4 seasons now. If we look at last season, 42 points would put him 112th in NHL forwards, which is firmly in the realm of second line production. Of course, he's not the only one to miss games, so a P/G comparison might be better, which drops him down to 151. Still, clearly in the top 180 NHL forwards. I don't see how anyone can argue he doesn't produce like a second liner.
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The start of the year really had me worried because I'm a big Backlund fan. He's been fantastic for a pretty long stretch now though. Makes me happy because as I've said before, I'm not sure there's another guy on the team that loves being a Flame as much as Backlund seems to.
He's been so consistent and I think finally people's high expectations from his early days have settled into realistic look at the kind of player he is.
He's a terrific player, plays his role well and I am very happy with him.
Some semblance of faceoff prowess would vault Backlund into a vastly superior level of 3rd line center. He is so good positionally that it kind of makes up for it. But when you're losing faceoffs all of the time, you're always chasing. I don't think it's any coincidence that Backlund and Frolik have elevetaed each other's play.
Draws are often won and lost by the wingers just as much as the center. I would point directly to our teams poor depth on wing to as much the reason the Flames have been one of the worst faceoff teams in the league the last number of years.
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Backlund definitely gets underrated. Though I feel like there's room for more out of him offensively, he's been very consistent with his production for the last few years.
He's been on pace for basically 42 points for the last 4 seasons now. If we look at last season, 42 points would put him 112th in NHL forwards, which is firmly in the realm of second line production. Of course, he's not the only one to miss games, so a P/G comparison might be better, which drops him down to 151. Still, clearly in the top 180 NHL forwards. I don't see how anyone can argue he doesn't produce like a second liner.
I'll admit I've been a critic of his. I can point to those stats as a player that's stagnated in his development as he's been on essentially the same point pace he set in four years ago. That said I acknowledge he's had a really good 2nd half of the season. If he can play an entire season like he's played the last few months of this season I could be a believer.
I love Backlund except for that damned face-off percentage. He's really on the low end for a guy who is espoused as a 2-way center.
And for the poster who said it's due to poor wingers...wow, the excuses. We've only recently had bad wingers on this team. Go back to 2012/13 and our top 9 wingers were: Jarome Iginla, Alex Tanguay (still in peak form), Mike Cammalleri, Jiri Hudler, Lee Stempniak, and Curtis Glencross. Despite being on the smaller side, those are all high quality players that know how to play in the NHL.
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I love Backlund except for that damned face-off percentage. He's really on the low end for a guy who is espoused as a 2-way center.
And for the poster who said it's due to poor wingers...wow, the excuses. We've only recently had bad wingers on this team. Go back to 2012/13 and our top 9 wingers were: Jarome Iginla, Alex Tanguay (still in peak form), Mike Cammalleri, Jiri Hudler, Lee Stempniak, and Curtis Glencross. Despite being on the smaller side, those are all high quality players that know how to play in the NHL.
Isn't Frolik his most common linemate this year? It sure feels like it. Maybe Bennett too.
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Isn't Frolik his most common linemate this year? It sure feels like it. Maybe Bennett too.
I was going to say this - his wingers haven't been horrible. He probably had a smattering of Jones and maybe Colborne as well, but that shouldn't hurt his faceoff %.
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If nothing else, Backlund is amazing due to his clear hate for the Canucks and their fans.
Don't forget, he's dampest too!
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