2 dead & 6 injured as teens take after hours sled ride down Winsport bobsleigh track

[Locke]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What is the cost of such a wall compared to chain link? It has to be way more.

Well....and those are typically more for sound-deadening.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What is the cost of such a wall compared to chain link? It has to be way more.

Plus you can climb one of those too. It's not hard, especially for nimble teenagers who want to get over.

Besides, like another poster said; what if you build a fence 5 meters tall and someone falls off? They can sue because the place built a dangerous fence.

It's all hooey and I don't know how anyone in their right might can say COP is guilty of anything. It was an unfortunate accident; that is all.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Plus you can climb one of those too. It's not hard, especially for nimble teenagers who want to get over.

Besides, like another poster said; what if you build a fence 5 meters tall and someone falls off? They can sue because the place built a dangerous fence.

It's all hooey and I don't know how anyone in their right might can say COP is guilty of anything. It was an unfortunate accident; that is all.

It isn't "hooey" when you have 2 dead and 6 injured.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It isn't "hooey" when you have 2 dead and 6 injured.

I called the accident unfortunate. I called the idea of suing, hooey.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It isn't "hooey" when you have 2 dead and 6 injured.

It is hooey to me, when its their own fault.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I called the accident unfortunate. I called the idea of suing, hooey.

Originally Posted by Weitz

It is hooey to me, when its their own fault.

Fair enough.

We will see what happens. Everything isn't always as it seems, and straight forward. Often courts see things differently than the general public.

Look at the decision on the Erin Andrews claim against Marriott.

[CliffFletcher]

People need to go back and read this thread, in particular the posts by lawyers. What the average person thinks about safety and common sense has no bearing whatsoever on the legal liability of Winsport. I hope there's no lawsuit over this, but it won't shock me if there is.

[Weitz]

Thats also the USA.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Thats also the USA.

USA or Canada, both are litigious.


As Cliff just said, this isn't cut and dry.

Alberta has Joint and Several Liability. All that needs to happen is the COP is 1% responsible and they can pay the full shot.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What is the cost of such a wall compared to chain link? It has to be way more.

Still probably cheaper than a lawsuit if one occurs.

I don't see how anyone can say that a 7' high fence is sufficient when it obviously wasn't sufficient. Yeah, it sucks that people need to pay in order to make a site secure and safe, but that's how it works.

It's like a fenced construction site. If a pedestrian consciously negotiates the fence and enters the site, the site supervisor is then responsible for their safety, whether they were invited or not.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Is it a non-profit organization?

I honestly don't know.

Answer below. Yes it is a non profit organization.

http://www.winsport.ca/aboutwinsport...ort_n58pqn.cfm

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't see how anyone can say that a 7' high fence is sufficient when it obviously wasn't sufficient.

What height of fence would have kept them out?

I think the implied wording is that a 7' fence is enough of a deterrent to keep people from accidentally entering. These kids intentionally broke in- so what would they have to do in order to make sure nobody can get in?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

So what do you want? A 5 meter fence that generates lawsuits when people fall off it?

Has that ever happened?

I think a fence like this one (used at some prisons and supposedly almost impossible to climb) would be warranted at least in the future.

http://www.ameristarfence.com/upload...f66b0cbaf1.jpg

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Fair enough.

We will see what happens. Everything isn't always as it seems, and straight forward. Often courts see things differently than the general public.

Look at the decision on the Erin Andrews claim against Marriott.

To be fair, the judge found the stalker at fault and left it up to the jury to decide if Windsor Capital and West End Hotels should share responsibility. Marriott wasn't actually part of the trial.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by ken0042

What height of fence would have kept them out?

I think the implied wording is that a 7' fence is enough of a deterrent to keep people from accidentally entering. These kids intentionally broke in- so what would they have to do in order to make sure nobody can get in?

No matter what you do, people will find fault. If they added razor wire on top of the fence and the kids sliced themselves up trying to climb over, people would cry wolf that COP took their security way too far. Or if they had guard dogs or electrified fences.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People need to go back and read this thread, in particular the posts by lawyers. What the average person thinks about safety and common sense has no bearing whatsoever on the legal liability of Winsport. I hope there's no lawsuit over this, but it won't shock me if there is.

And we all understand that. Perfectly. Just because it's law doesn't mean it makes sense or we have to agree with it. We aren't disagreeing for a second that Winsport can't be successfully sued, we think it's dumb that they can/could.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

USA or Canada, both are litigious.


As Cliff just said, this isn't cut and dry.

Alberta has Joint and Several Liability. All that needs to happen is the COP is 1% responsible and they can pay the full shot.

I disagree. According to conventional wisdom and supported by this recent Norton Rose survey, Canada is not very litigious in comparison to the United States as well as other western nations.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Zarley

I disagree. According to conventional wisdom and supported by this recent Norton Rose survey, Canada is not very litigious in comparison to the United States as well as other western nations.

Hey, you seem to be better informed/educated than I.

I was purely speaking from personal experience.

[dubc80]

I'm surprised at some of the responses here regarding Winsport's security measures.

Although the law may say otherwise and deem that trespassing is irrelevant, I feel that they have the necessary precautions in place. The place was closed, there's a fence, signs...

What's next?

Should golf courses, community lakes, waterslide parks and any other public venue with hazards have a requirement to be surrounded by impenetrable walls in case someone decides to sneak in, use the facility improperly, and gets hurt/killed somehow?

At some point I'd hope personal accountability takes hold and that is the final outcome.

I hate the fact that everyone is looking to blame others these days.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by dubc80

I'm surprised at some of the responses here regarding Winsport's security measures.

Although the law may say otherwise and deem that trespassing is irrelevant, I feel that they have the necessary precautions in place. The place was closed, there's a fence, signs...

What's next?

Should golf courses, community lakes, waterslide parks and any other public venue with hazards have a requirement to be surrounded by impenetrable walls in case someone decides to sneak in, use the facility improperly, and gets hurt/killed somehow?

At some point I'd hope personal accountability takes hold and that is the final outcome.

I hate the fact that everyone is looking to blame others these days.

I don't think people think they should sue they are just stating how and why they can. When you are in an industry that deals with these situations you become very jaded. If people can get money they will 9 times out of 10. I get angry just thinking about it, I need to go to my happy place.