[PGT] Flames break a 7 game losing streak. Beat the Pens 4-2

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Good grief I hope Treliving can find some sucker to take Stajan from us.

I mean, by all accounts he's a great guy but that contract is T-E-R-R-I-B-L-E for this team moving forward. I get that when it was signed the Flames center depth was non-existent but now? Yikes.

With Monahan's (21) extension this year, then Bennett (19) next year, plus having Backlund (26)...

Having over $3 million tied up in a soft, 30+ year old 4th line center who isn't very good at face-offs for two more seasons after this one is a real clusterf***.

They actually might have to just buy him out to be honest.

I totally disagree. I think Stajan's value to this team is almost entirely in an off-ice leadership role. We are a young team and we're not going to get a lot older in the near future.

Listen to a guy like Jalen Rose talk about the importance of having guys on the team who can teach players how to be Pros. How to do the little things, look after themselves, manage press and fans, put in the work to have a long career.

Stajan has dealt with a lot. He's been a 1st line center and a 4th liner, played in the biggest media market in hockey, been part of a blockbuster trade. There is huge value in having guys like him and Giordano, who came back from the KHL to become a Captain, on the roster for their off-ice accomplishments. (Obviously, Gio has value as one of the best defensemen in the league too).

Take a look at who's playing for us now and how many guys do we have who are even 26 with 250+ games? Gio, Wideman, Stajan, Backlund... Bollig? Engelland?

Keeping a guy like Stajan on the roster is the kind of thing that may not see game-to-game value, but pays off down the road when our current young guys are in their prime, winning playoff series after playoff series and saying things like "you know who taught me how to manage the ups and downs of a season? Matty, Matty taught me that."

[Roof-Daddy]

I agree that Stajan is great to have on a rebuilding roster, but not when that roster is pushing the cap (which isn't entirely because of Stajan, we have other bad contracts too) and he is a marginal 4th line center taking up over $3 million.

...also, I'm speaking about next year, and then especially the year after that. That contract is bad for the Flames now, but only going to get worse with each passing year.

[Sylvanfan]

Im not worried about the season after next year. One Wideman, Raymond, Smid, Engelland clear off the books I think they can carry one year of Stajan. At that point him and Frolik are pretty much your only bad contracts.

[Flamefan1]

Stajan is a nice guy and I am sure a great team mate, but unfortunately he has exceeded his best before date. He no longer wins 50% of his faceoffs (although he did win 50% tonight). We are wasting young players on the farm who have more to offer at 1/3 the price. A buy-out should be seriously considered although Wideman an Raymond should be inline before Stajan. I believe you are limited to two buyouts (not sure if that is correct).

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

I believe you are limited to two buyouts (not sure if that is correct).

You may be thinking of compliance buyouts, which are finished in any case.

A team can have any number of buyouts, but only three ‘ordinary course buy-outs outside the regular period’ during the term of the CBA. (Article 11.18.) The regular period is roughly from the end of the playoffs to June 30, with a second regular period after a team's last arbitration award or settlement. This, I suppose, is why the media talk as if buyouts were only possible during those two periods. Nobody wants to use up their three ‘outside’ buyouts unnecessarily.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

At that point him and Frolik are pretty much your only bad contracts.

I'm curious why you think Frolik is a bad contract. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to pay $4.3m for a 0.5 ppg, two-way forward acquired as a UFA.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I'm curious why you think Frolik is a bad contract. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to pay $4.3m for a 0.5 ppg, two-way forward acquired as a UFA.

Yup. Find me a good similar forward who can kill penalties, is generally useful and is a UFA at a contract less than that. I think some people are living in the past contract-wise, or just don't recognize that vets get paid more than similarly skilled ELC or RFA players.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Yeah, I know. Figures don't lie.

What in my post said anything about "figures"?

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I just wish they'd put Bennet on the top line with 13 and 23. I want this guy developing with high-skill linemates, not getting dumbed down by Colborne and Bouma.

The guy's a potential Peter Forsberg and we're trying to turn him into Stephane Yelle.

Funny you mention that. Forsberg is who Hartley has compared Sam to. He'll be fine. Forsberg was 22 in his rookie year. As a 19 year old he wasn't even a PPG in the swedish leagues.

As long as Sam is playing center, he will learn the nuances of the position, which will propel him in the future if and when he's our #1 center.

The only reason he should be on the top line is to center Johnny, not to play wing on that line. And we've seen Monahan really benefits from Johnny's puck skills so that's a good combination as a #2 line. So really, what we need to do is get Sam a winger, not get Johnny and Monny a Sam.

[Savvy27]

I thought that Bennett's puck support was really noticeable today. There seemed to be a great number of short passes to Bennett all over the ice as he was moving his feet and giving guys options. That's a great sign for a young centerman.

[AC]

Bennett has an insane amount of potential, he makes so many small plays that go unnoticed but put teammates into great positions to score.

[druetetective]

Milestone report
missed a couple
-Gio is 7th all time in Flames assists. Passes Doug Gilmour for 38th in goals. He is coming up on a very significant milestone soon, stay tuned!

-Backlund moves into top 50 in goals!! Tied with Steve Bozek and Bobby Leiter. I wonder how high he can get. takes 123 to break into top 20. He has 64.

-Stajan passes Langkow for 31st in GP.

-Bob Hartley moved into 3rd in wins a while back. He passed Brent Sutter

Just for fun (I usually only do top 50's)

Sam Bennett moved into a tie with Owen Nolan and Nigel Dawes for 192nd all time in points.

*Hudler finished his Flames career 45th in goals and T38 in points. (Him and Valeri Bure are tied and had very similar stints here stats wise.) Thank you Jiri!

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I thought that Bennett's puck support was really noticeable today. There seemed to be a great number of short passes to Bennett all over the ice as he was moving his feet and giving guys options. That's a great sign for a young centerman.

I think they actually mentioned that on the broadcast that was one of the things the coaching staff had been working with him on recently, especially since the shift to centre. Make quick decisions and involve your teammates more

[Roughneck]

[Go_Flames4ever]

Originally Posted by driveway

Keeping a guy like Stajan on the roster is the kind of thing that may not see game-to-game value, but pays off down the road when our current young guys are in their prime, winning playoff series after playoff series and saying things like "you know who taught me how to manage the ups and downs of a season? Matty, Matty taught me that."

While I can agree having a good vet for off-ice guidance, but not $3.125M worth for 2 more years against the cap. Yes, all of Wideman, Engelland, Smid, Raymond, and Bollig's cap hits will be gone after next year if not before that. You still can't pay a 4th liner that kind of money for 2 more years as next year cap with Gio, Monny, and Johnny's new deals and possibly a new set of goalies for $5M (guestimate) we'll be right at the cap without even adding anything.

I can't really subscribe to the quoted about teaching the kids how to win from Stajan's standpoint. The guy has never been to the playoffs in the NHL except for last season, so what he knows about winning in the show is as much as what our kids already know.

He MAY be able to teach them how to be a pro or manage their off-ice stuff, but is that really worth $3.125M? We had a guy that, I think, did a hell of a lot more growing these kids than Stajan did, which we had already needed to move on from, and we have other vets that can also still provide both on and off-ice value.

[N-E-B]

Had to miss the 2nd half of the game but followed along. Nice to be back ahead of Edmonton. I thought it wouldn't annoy me but honestly being behind those goofs was pretty irritating.

[UKflames]

Man some of you are hard on Ortio. He had a great game and both goals against could not be put down to him at all. Goalies develop way slower than any other player and a lot of people want to throw him out to grass already, give him time.
I cannot wait until Gilles goes through these ups and downs and people want to dump him and move onto McDonald, then we can rinse and repeat.

[dammage79]

Ortio has been good in his stint since being called up.

The raw dogging of Colborne is slowly becoming unfounded angst as he's surpassed his goal production from last year and is 3 points away from setting a new career high in points. If anything, they guy is consistent and improving. I feel like he's being targeted just because rabble rabble rabble.

I figure if he stays healthy and beats the GP mark he set last year, he could very likely be pushing 40 points. And in a season as bad as this one, that'll be one of the few bright spots. I think you keep Colborne moving forward. He getting better each season.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ortio has been good in his stint since being called up.

The raw dogging of Colborne is slowly becoming unfounded angst as he's surpassed his goal production from last year and is 3 points away from setting a new career high in points. If anything, they guy is consistent and improving. I feel like he's being targeted just because rabble rabble rabble.

I figure if he stays healthy and beats the GP mark he set last year, he could very likely be pushing 40 points. And in a season as bad as this one, that'll be one of the few bright spots. I think you keep Colborne moving forward. He getting better each season.

He's big but not physical - that's surefire way to get some fans angry at you. You already see it come out at time against Monahan. Joe Thornton is another guy who gets the same treatment. Obviously Colborne isn't in Monahan or Thornton's league offensively but you don't have to be a bone rattler to be effective.

EDIT: I'd also add that on a game by game basis - Colborne brings it much more often than Ferland who is essentially invisible 75% of the games he plays and gets similar bumps up the line-ups and PP chances at times.

[PeteMoss]

I'd actually think Stajan is a decent buyout candidate. Save $2.17 off the cap next year, $1.17M the next year and only $833k on the books for the 2 season following.

Raymond would save $2.1M next year and a hit of $1.05M the next year.

Stajan is good depth, but just too expensive for what he brings at this point.

[Heavy Jack]

Love Stajan, have loads of respect for the guy and feel like he would be a good fit still with the right team but we can't have him on the books for 2 more years after this season, especially when you consider that the cap may go down instead of up/same, we have guys like Janko knocking and we have big contracts to hand out in Monahan/Gaudreau/Bennett and a few others... Plus we really do need to make a splash in the Free agent market, mostly for a proven starter but for some help on the right wing too...

Engelland also is tradeable now with Jokipakka joining the fold and guys like Nakladal/Wotherspoon/Kulak and more knocking.

Treeliving's biggest task so far will be the off-season:

Construct the two biggest contracts in the history of the Flames
Free up dead weight i.e. Bollig/Raymond/Smid
Move out players who aren't dead weight but need to go Stajan/Engelland
Find a proven starter
Find size/skill player for the right side
Potentially select the highest pick in franchise history
RFA contracts: Colborne/Jooris/Ortio/Wotherspoon/Arnold/Agostino/Shore/Grant/Hamilton
Janko

Should be a fun draft/off-season