The Defence Thread - Discussion, Speculation, and Pairings - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

TheScorpion · 03-01-2016, 07:56 PM

With many of the issues surrounding our defence corps right now, I thought it'd be apt to create a thread dedicated to the group.

Here are the Flames' options on D right now:

Giordano ($6.75 million until 2022)
Brodie ($4.654 million until 2020)
Hamilton ($5.75 million until 2021)
Wideman ($5.25 million until 2017)
Engelland ($2.9 million until 2017)
Smid ($3.5 million until 2017)
Jokipakka ($0.9 million until 2017)
Nakladal (pending UFA)
Wotherspoon (pending RFA)

We have plenty of depth in the minors, too:

Kylington
Andersson
Kulak
Culkin
Morrison
Sieloff
Kanzig

What are your thoughts on the situation? Should we target some of the higher-profile UFA defencemen?

Roof-Daddy · 03-01-2016, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Should we target some of the higher-profile UFA defencemen?

Nope.

Smid will probably be on LTIR, but if he comes back then one of him or Engelland need to be moved IMO

Also Wideman needs to be moved as well.

I'm still hoping BT trades for Hamonic in the off-season, he is available after all.

AcGold · 03-01-2016, 07:59 PM

So much depth, spots on the line next year are going to be tough to take. The only thing I hope is Wideman doesn't play on the team anymore, he's way way too slow to be a dman.

We only really need to fill 5 and 6. Gio, Brodie, Hamilton and Engelland are a solid top 4.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-01-2016, 08:02 PM

We need to dump Wideman, Nakladal can be as good or better with some adaptation period and Wideman's cap hit is crippling us. Will likely have to wait til the draft or summer.

Don't think UFAs are really an option, too much overpaying goes on there and we can't afford to overpay.

Jokipakka looks good early. Wotherspoon looks good. Nakladal looks good. Kulak may be ready soon as well.

I think we deal Wideman. Keep Engelland as our 3rd pairing vet. Have Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, Jokipakka and then keep 2 of Kulak, Wotherspoon and Nakladal next fall.

Buck Murdock · 03-01-2016, 08:04 PM

Get rid of Smid, Engelland and Wideman. No other moves necessary.

blender · 03-01-2016, 08:18 PM

Serious question. Could Wideman be converted to RW. Not that he'd be an answer to much, but is there any point or feasibility of it happening?

420since1974 · 03-01-2016, 08:20 PM

I'm sure that many of us would like to see Engelland, Raymond, Smid, & Wideman moved a.s.a.p.

Unfortunately, their contracts make them near impossible to trade and the team has a "no retaining salary" policy.

They might buyout one or two of them, but that's just adding to long term pain.

There will only be Cap Space to re-sign JH & SM plus add a #1 Goalie next season.

We'll have to wait until 2017/2018 to address the #1 RW position.

Machiavelli · 03-01-2016, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blender

Serious question. Could Wideman be converted to RW. Not that he'd be an answer to much, but is there any point or feasibility of it happening?

That would never happen.

His shot has been failing him, and he can barely skate.

Why do you think that's even be a remote possibility? Strange thing to come up with.

getbak · 03-01-2016, 08:30 PM

I think we'll see Smid essentially retire and spend next season on LTIR; and Wideman will get traded, probably with some salary retained.

Start the season next year with:

Gio - Brodie
Jokipakka - Hamilton
Wotherspoon - Nakladal
Engelland

JJ1532 · 03-01-2016, 08:31 PM

Gio and Brodie obviously fill the top 2 spots. Hamilton is clearly on the 2nd. But I'd really like to see a mix of Wotherspoon, Nakladal and Jokipakka given chances to pair up with Hamilton. Then latter 2 then fill in as the bottom 2 guys. Engellend can be the 7th dman/press box guy.

But then, what do you do with Wideman? Doubt anyone wants to trade for him during the summer and I reckon Hartley would love to have him back in the lineup, ruining the PP. he needs to be moved for anything we can get I think. Retain salary, take a bad forward contract back, anything. Just get him gone, because I would feel a lot better about next season with the 6-7 guys we have now.

As for Smid, if he does come back, stick him in the minors.

The reality is, however, that Wideman will be straight back in after his suspension, probably in the 2nd pairing and probably right back on the main PP unit, playing 20 minutes a night. Engellend will get the nod in one of the bottom roles, leaving 1 roster spot on the bottom pairing open for one of Wotherspoon, Kulak, Andersson, Kylington, Nakladal and Jokipakka.

I just hope Brad finds a way to get rid of Wideman and Smid, their contracts have suddently become a big problem.

saXon · 03-01-2016, 08:31 PM

Keep Nak and Pak together

Matty81 · 03-01-2016, 08:39 PM

I'd like to see Jokipakka with Hamilton. I think with him being a more stay at home type that could be a real good pairing... Both big guys who can skate.

Then I'd go with Nakladal and Wotherspoon as the 3rd pairing if that works.

Jettison Wideman 50% retained for anything... Buyout Smid if he doesn't retire (i think that would only be a 1.2 hit for 2 years). Go with Engelland as #7... Bring him in against heavier teams or if somebody needs a night off.

AC · 03-01-2016, 08:39 PM

Cutting all 3 of Wideman, Engelland, and Smid would be fine by me. They eat up $11.65M which is insane for our #5/6/7 defencemen.

That's more than Gio + Brodie make next year.

Having some cheaper Dmen pushing for icetime is exactly what we need.

Jokipakka, Wotherspoon, Nakladal, Kulak, etc. are all great options for the 4/5/6/7 roles.

JiriHrdina · 03-01-2016, 08:40 PM

I don't think Wideman is movable until maybe at the deadline next season. So I think we are stuck with him. Barf.

AC · 03-01-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think Wideman is movable until maybe at the deadline next season. So I think we are stuck with him. Barf.

Yeah I agree.

Buying him out would save us $4M next season, but cost us $2M the following year.

Flames Draft Watcher · 03-01-2016, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think Wideman is movable until maybe at the deadline next season. So I think we are stuck with him. Barf.

Disagree. D-men with big, bad contracts still get 2nd chances. See Dion Phaneuf, see Brian Campbell, see Jason Garrison, see Matt Carle. Some GM out there is going to need D and think Wideman can be a 3/4/5 PP helper. We may have to eat a bad contract back like a Purcell or a Sam Gagner type of bad contract. But he's definitely moveable at some point this offseason.

If Brad Treliving is a real wizard then he'll move Wideman without taking a bad contract back and we'll be left dumbfounded. If Phaneuf and his albatross contract for years and years can move, then Wideman and his 1 slightly overpaid year is EASILY moveable. Just gotta convince him to waive the NMC so we need to trade him to a contender.

MarkGio · 03-01-2016, 08:44 PM

This free agency is lousy. We really shouldn't be targeting anyone unless it's to suite a long term need. Besides, next free agency we should have the cap space to put us over the top

N-E-B · 03-01-2016, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think Wideman is movable until maybe at the deadline next season. So I think we are stuck with him. Barf.

Possibly, but I think Wideman at 50% retained isn't that bad for only one year. I could see teams taking him on for depth at the draft. My question is if the Flames could get anything of significance back for him or if they'd have to pay someone else in draft picks to take him.

JiriHrdina · 03-01-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Disagree. D-men with big, bad contracts still get 2nd chances. See Dion Phaneuf, see Brian Campbell, see Jason Garrison, see Matt Carle. Some GM out there is going to need D and think Wideman can be a 3/4/5 PP helper. We may have to eat a bad contract back like a Purcell or a Sam Gagner type of bad contract. But he's definitely moveable at some point this offseason.

If Brad Treliving is a real wizard then he'll move Wideman without taking a bad contract back and we'll be left dumbfounded. If Phaneuf and his albatross contract for years and years can move, then Wideman and his 1 slightly overpaid year is EASILY moveable. Just gotta convince him to waive the NMC so we need to trade him to a contender.

I fear one of the hurdles is his NTC and his lack of willingness to waive it. I don't have any proof of this - pure speculation on my part.

blender · 03-01-2016, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

That would never happen.

His shot has been failing him, and he can barely skate.

Why do you think that's even be a remote possibility? Strange thing to come up with.

I don't disagree with you, it just kind of popped into my head. He has good vision on the ice, and can shoot the puck.
Fair enough, though; not a drum I'm willing to beat. Just random thought.