Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I have zero faith in Trudeau putting much energy into the Alberta file. I think he likes what's happening here just fine.

Remember that Canada is much better off being ruled by Quebec and the country belongs to him

Those are his words.

So if he can get some kicks in at the province that hated his father so much he's going to be all over it.

But thanks for the pocket change.

This is just ridiculous. Frankly he's spent more time in Calgary and Alberta in the first few months of office than we have seen from any PM for the last 20 years. They've pledged a fairly sizeable chunk of money for Alberta and like I mentioned earlier I'm quite sure it was their idea to increase the time for people for EI benefits in his last visit to the province a few weeks ago.

To be honest there isn't a lot that the federal government can do here. We saw this issue with Harper as well when it comes to the building of pipelines; in order to get approvals we have to first appease all of the stakeholders and that has less to do with the federal government and more to do with the overall process.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is just ridiculous. Frankly he's spent more time in Calgary and Alberta in the first few months of office than we have seen from any PM for the last 20 years. They've pledged a fairly sizeable chunk of money for Alberta and like I mentioned earlier I'm quite sure it was their idea to increase the time for people for EI benefits in his last visit to the province a few weeks ago.

To be honest there isn't a lot that the federal government can do here. We saw this issue with Harper as well when it comes to the building of pipelines; in order to get approvals we have to first appease all of the stakeholders and that has less to do with the federal government and more to do with the overall process.

Why is it ridiculous.

The 700 million that he sent had already been earmarked and approved by Harper for distribution. Trudeau released what was released.

the $250 million stabilization fund is going to do little to nothing, and its a zero effort for the Prime Ministers office.

EI changes, we won't see that for years, Trudeau has already said its something that is going to go through committees and study. It will be an election promise next time around, you just watch.

He took the review process for the pipelines and basically said, I'm going to open it up for a lot more consultation, and its going to take about a year longer.

Then when asked if the NEB approved Energy East would he support it, and we got pretty much a big fat no comment.

Oh and lets not forget the mandate letters that he put out that killed already approved pipelines west by shutting down tanker traffic.

Oh and he's still going to ram through a national carbon tax which will probably chase even more investment dollars out of this industry.

He came here for a couple of days, great, he said some things great. But if this is truly being viewed as an economic emergency he's done little to add any urgency to it.

[Hack&Lube]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scie...ines-1.3471362

BC scientists send letter to Trudeau to not approve pipelines...

[burn_this_city]

BC clean tech begs for welfare from PM.

[Harju]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scie...ines-1.3471362

BC scientists send letter to Trudeau to not approve pipelines...

Sort of a strange request. They seem to think the government is the one building the pipelines and want the funds to go to them instead.

[corporatejay]

oh #### them.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Harju

Sort of a strange request. They seem to think the government is the one building the pipelines and want the funds to go to them instead.

SO they're morons?

[Slava]

I heard Notleys comments on the radio and they seemed sensible enough. Basically the injunction is to make sure that TCPL is following the PQ environmental laws, and according to TCPL the Quebec government will get everything they are asking for when they file for approval. That seems like a rational approach. Couple that with some positive comments from Trudeau on the topic and this all seems like it's moving in the right direction.

[Tacopuck]

Uhg this is what happens when stupid people (and I mean that in the low IQ way) vote.

Yeah I understand the ethical reasoning in limiting rights for certain groups and populations (which is wrong), but it still does not change the fact 95% of the population would not be suitable for running an organization that is responsible for millions of people, so how can we expect them to make properly educated and informed decisions. Can we expect politicians to give us the straight truth? No, at least not unless there is laws that force politicians to live up to campaign promises or face being automatically kicked out, which wont happen.

Governments need to be run more like corporations, people best suited for the job will be selected by people who are actually knowledgeable and experienced in their respective field. Obviously the first reaction that will be is how can you make the government responsible to the people that they represent but they were not elected by. This is not a simple problem but it can be dealt with links to performance metrics - if the person is not meeting their standardized and agreed upon targets, they're out. The government would be responsible to their shareholders as any publicly traded company is, only difference is how we measure the performance of the organization (ie multitude of portfolio based performance metrics versus Stock price and earnings)

I'm assuming I'll get alot of flak for this, nor would you EVER be able to garner public support for it, but hey this is the internet, a home for ridiculous ideas.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scie...ines-1.3471362

BC scientists send letter to Trudeau to not approve pipelines...

Dude, that's really disingenuous. There's nothing in the article that says they don't want the pipelines approved. They just don't want federal infrastructure spending to go towards them and think it should be diverted to cleantech companies, which I half agree with. The oil companies should be responsible for building their own pipelines.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, that's really disingenuous. There's nothing in the article that says they don't want the pipelines approved. They just don't want federal infrastructure spending to go towards them and think it should be diverted to cleantech companies, which I half agree with. The oil companies should be responsible for building their own pipelines.

What federal infrastructure spending is going towards them (pipeline companies and oilsands companies)?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, that's really disingenuous. There's nothing in the article that says they don't want the pipelines approved. They just don't want federal infrastructure spending to go towards them and think it should be diverted to cleantech companies, which I half agree with. The oil companies should be responsible for building their own pipelines.

How much federal infrastructure money is actually going to pipeline construction? I don't think all that much if any.

Why should any government money at this point go towards cleantech companies either. At some point they need to stand on their own two feet and create a viable product that can make them profitable.

Or is every cleantech companies model that its ok for them to lose money until they're either purchased by Bombardier or bailed out.

[indes]

What do you think about Leary's idea of a referendum for the pipelines?

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com...rendum-163239/

I say why not?

[CaptainCrunch]

Chances are Ontario and Quebec would quash it unless they were both given billions of dollars in cash incentives to vote for them.

Personally I think he's a blowhard, but in his open letter to Wynn he actively compared their carbon tax to a hedge fund and said that the tax payers deserve quarterly reports on how much is coming in and what its being spent on.

I do think that in terms of programs like sales taxes and carbon taxes we are owed maximum reportage.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by indes

What do you think about Leary's idea of a referendum for the pipelines?

http://www.canadianmanufacturing.com...rendum-163239/

I say why not?

Good god no. The average voter does not understand the issues. Don't leave this in the hands of morons.

[Tacopuck]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Good god no. The average voter does not understand the issues. Don't leave this in the hands of morons.

There is not enough thanks in all of CP to give you for this

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Regorium

What federal infrastructure spending is going towards them (pipeline companies and oilsands companies)?

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How much federal infrastructure money is actually going to pipeline construction? I don't think all that much if any.

Why should any government money at this point go towards cleantech companies either. At some point they need to stand on their own two feet and create a viable product that can make them profitable.

Or is every cleantech companies model that its ok for them to lose money until they're either purchased by Bombardier or bailed out.

Sorry, I meant I half-agreed that money shouldn't be going to the pipelines. I'm aware it currently is not. They come across as uninformed clowns, but not anti-pipeline as the original poster suggested.

[indes]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

Good god no. The average voter does not understand the issues. Don't leave this in the hands of morons.

I just assumed it was already in the hands of morons

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It went both ways.

We had a lunchroom chat with one of our executives last week and he told a story of when he was a teenager growing up in Ontario and his experience coming to Alberta for the first time. His father sent him to Alberta to work for the summer and when he returned to Ontario, his family (I guess it was an important family) was having dinner with Pierre Trudeau and they had this discussion:

Ontario Boy: "Did you know there are a lot of hard working people in Alberta that feel like your government doesn't care about them and that they don't matter?"

Pierre Trudeau: "That's right. They don't matter!!!"

I'm picturing Trudeau as Vince McMahon here.

Out of curiosity, why did Trudeau dislike Alberta?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Dude, that's really disingenuous. There's nothing in the article that says they don't want the pipelines approved. They just don't want federal infrastructure spending to go towards them and think it should be diverted to cleantech companies, which I half agree with. The oil companies should be responsible for building their own pipelines.

There is no half measure there. Either you agree with them or you don't.

And if the feds should not invest in our oil industry, they should not be investing in clean tech either. Let both raise their own capital.

Or, perhaps invest in both, and help this country's economy.