May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[Locke]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You know, it'd be a lot easier to take the opposition seriously if there were ever any constructive criticism or alternative ideas proposed. Instead we get a bunch of "adults" throwing temper tantrums. I'm fully on board with going after the NDP for their failures, but how about establishing yourself as a viable alternative. Where is the WRP's shadow budget? What are their plans for fixing unemployment in the province? How about the PCs? The only party that actually seems to be putting out alternatives is the Alberta Party.

I guess if oil doesn't recover at least there will be a booming salt industry to fall back on.

What part of 'rolling back provincial salaries of teachers and nurses that are the highest in the country by a wide, wide, margin' wasnt 'coming up with a solution?

[Flash Walken]

Are we going to be rolling back the salaries of police and fire as well?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are we going to be rolling back the salaries of police and fire as well?

Yes.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Are we going to be rolling back the salaries of police and fire as well?

If their salaries are significantly out of line with the rest of the country, it has to be considered.

Like it or not, the public service that benefits greatly when times are good must also share the burden when times are poor. Public servants aren't a special class.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If their salaries are significantly out of line with the rest of the country, it has to be considered.

Like it or not, the public service that benefits greatly when times are good must also share the burden when times are poor. Public servants aren't a special class.

What is the threshold for cuts?

Who decides with is 'significantly out of line' with the rest of the country?

What provinces do you include to gauge 'the rest of the country'? Does that include the NWT?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is the threshold for cuts?

Who decides with is 'significantly out of line' with the rest of the country?

What provinces do you include to gauge 'the rest of the country'? Does that include the NWT?

Okay, are you being deliberately obtuse or are you actually asking?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

Matty, lets call a spade a spade.

The NDP were not voted in because their views represented the views of the general public.

They were voted in as a protest to inept/corrupt PC governance, nothing more.

Their track record thus far is ensuring a single term of 4 years is all they will have.

I'm not arguing the merits of the NDP at all. Just a fundamental disagreement with the roles of the political parties sitting in the legislature. You probably won't find many people that voted NDP that are as disappointed so far as me. But it's really beside the point. The fighting over whose team is best should have finished after May 2015. We're pushing a year now. Stuff has to get done and that means compromise from all sides.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

If their salaries are significantly out of line with the rest of the country, it has to be considered.

Like it or not, the public service that benefits greatly when times are good must also share the burden when times are poor. Public servants aren't a special class.

I find this to be an interesting position when the people who benefited the absolute most from good times would rather lay people off, take their tax money and leave the province or country, than "share the burden" of the poor times, and no one really says boo about it, and blames government policies for driving them away rather than pointing to their own personal greed.

I have no problem with public sector salaries and benefits seeing a roll-back, as long as private industry is willing to make similar sacrifices for the betterment of the area which has given them the resources and ability to build personal fortunes and multi-billion dollar businesses.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm not arguing the merits of the NDP at all. Just a fundamental disagreement with the roles of the political parties sitting in the legislature. You probably won't find many people that voted NDP that are as disappointed so far as me. But it's really beside the point. The fighting over whose team is best should have finished after May 2015. We're pushing a year now. Stuff has to get done and that means compromise from all sides.

I agree stuff needs to get done.

No one is holding up the NDP's decisions but the NDP. And they do a masterful job of it.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, are you being deliberately obtuse or are you actually asking?

I'm actually asking.

Why are public sector cuts limited to teachers and nurses? Who decides what the 'average' is and who qualifies?

It's really easy to say 'cut public sector union wages', but it's much harder to identify who those cuts should apply to and what those cuts should be.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I agree stuff needs to get done.

No one is holding up the NDP's decisions but the NDP. And they do a masterful job of it.

Not arguing that. Just that the opposing parties shouldn't be trying to create hold-ups and backlog without offering any solutions. So what if the NDP takes their ideas and puts it into their bills. Shouldn't that be a win for the opposition? Isn't that really the most productive thing you can do when opposing a majority government?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I'm actually asking.

Why are public sector cuts limited to teachers and nurses? Who decides what the 'average' is and who qualifies?

It's really easy to say 'cut public sector union wages', but it's much harder to identify who those cuts should apply to and what those cuts should be.

Okay, I didnt mean to attack you I just wasnt sure what you were asking.

Well I'll spitball it a bit I guess.

You take the main Provinces and exclude places where there is a rural living premium and determine the average wage for each public sector job. This should include Government.

There are agencies that do this. And in fact, those agencies have already done this. Actually its part of being in the public sector, all of that information is public.

One would think that with such a drastic reduction in tax revenue the Government could likely afford to lay off a tax collector or two.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Okay, I didnt mean to attack you I just wasnt sure what you were asking.

Well I'll spitball it a bit I guess.

You take the main Provinces and exclude places where there is a rural living premium and determine the average wage for each public sector job. This should include Government.

There are agencies that do this. And in fact, those agencies have already done this. Actually its part of being in the public sector, all of that information is public.

One would think that with such a drastic reduction in tax revenue the Government could likely afford to lay off a tax collector or two.

Do you excluse places like nova scotia that might as well have a rural living premium or do you keep them in because it helps the equation?

What are Alberta's expenditures in health and education compared to BC, Ontario and Qeubec?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by woob

Totally agree. I was hoping the NDP would be the ones to grow a pair and bring Alberta into the sales tax era (while cutting spending, etc.) but, like the PCs before, they don't have the guts to do it.

I wish politics/government was more about governing and doing what's best for your people/province/country rather than doing things to ensure you win the next election.

the carbon tax is a sales tax.

The carbon tax is pretty much a consumer tax and it goes to general accounting.

Adding a sales tax on top of that is stupid unless you go to a zero income tax model and tax everything based on consumption.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Do you excluse places like nova scotia that might as well have a rural living premium or do you keep them in because it helps the equation?

What are Alberta's expenditures in health and education compared to BC, Ontario and Qeubec?

Overall or per capita?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Overall or per capita?

Per capita I guess

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Per capita I guess

Do you want that pro-rated by CPI? Should we include a multi-year average that includes a past recession or will superficial averages do?

[northcrunk]

We really need to thin out some of the bloated management in the public sector. Nurses and teachers provide value. All the middle management and upper management doesn't.

[The Ditch]

PST is a regressive tax that actively hurts low income earners more than high ones, that's why the NDP won't do it, PST is just a bad tax scheme.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Locke

Do you want that pro-rated by CPI? Should we include a multi-year average that includes a past recession or will superficial averages do?

Will CPI radically alter the results?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Will CPI radically alter the results?

I dont know, we should run the numbers both ways just to be sure.