[PGT] Free Fallin' for Forty Days: PHI 5 - CGY 3

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Well, we're not winning with them and the past few games I have felt they have been sub par. Both were awful tonight. Sloppy and soft. Pretty bloody straight forward.

You've been been employed/watching to many Vancouver games.

Your starting to think like a Nucks fan.

[dirk diggler]

I am not one to look to the team to fire coaches every year, you need some continuity. so i am all for the coaches coming back but if next year the special teams are as horrible as they have been this year, a change needs to happen. pp looks better but pk is tough to watch

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Goaltending is not the only problem, but I really believe that when the team don't trust the guy to make some saves, it fundamentally changes how they play in front of him. Bad tending undermines everything else. Solid goaltending is tables stakes to winning in the NHL.

Totally agree. When Ramo was playing well, the whole team played better. Get a competent goalie again, I'm sure you'll see a more confident bunch making less mistakes.

Originally Posted by polak

Oh man, this team.... Its just awful. This is easily the worst Flames team since '03.



Can't wait for Hartley to be gone and for someone to implement a system that doesn't depend on the other team forgetting how to play hockey.



Hathaway looked good. At least Johnny got a point even though I think he was a bit of a puck hog and trying to score one in his hometown.

I'll still take this team over the Brent years, all day long. I don't get you utter dislike for Hartley but his Jack Adams hasn't even started collecting dust yet. Throw in the fact that having piss poor goaltending isn't really his fault, he gets a bit of a pass and I bet will still be the coach come October. PP has improved lately as well, likely saving Gelinas job for the mean time.

Losing sucks, but we still have some great building blocks. Acquire (through trade, FA, or prospect progression) an above average goalie, a middle pairing Dman and a top 6 winger and that group is a playoff team.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Maybe if the effort was lacking. But its not.

Guys have bad games. Sometimes the other guys have good games (like Giroux did tonight).

You don't bench your captain and leader for that.

Not a benching, more of a break. I haven't been happy with their play for awhile now. They are two of the better skating, passing and offensively minded D men in the league. But their actual defensive play has been very suspect to me lately. Brodie alone had nearly two disastrous turnovers today. They might be tired or just in need of a shake up.

I have also never been overly keen on the pairing for the long term so now is a good a time as any to try things out.

[kukkudo]

I still see management letting go the assistant coaches once the season is over.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The team as a whole was sloppy and soft tonight.

I mean, you look at who we lost to trades/are missing:

- David Jones
- Ladi Smid
- Dennis Wideman
- Kris Russell

These are all grittier guys, who we were without tonight. The Flames are a very soft team now. Gio and Brodie just play more - so, it's more obvious, maybe? I don't know.

Totally wrong. The team was very gritty tonight. Ferland/Engelland/Hathaway etc threw a lot of hits. Physical battle out there.

[CroFlames]

I'm concerned people are becoming accustomed to losing. Very concerned.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Do people really believe goaltending will save this team? We could add the league leader in SV% right now and that guy would post a .850 next season if the team in front plays like that second period.

Brodie was awful today, probably the worst game he's had in over a calendar year. Is he injured?

Also Engelland is not a top 4 defenseman and we can't get Dennis Wideman back soon enough.

Woah woah woah. I can assure you based on his play this season, Dennis Wideman is not a top 4 defenseman either and is definitely not the answer.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

You've been been employed/watching to many Vancouver games.

Your starting to think like a Nucks fan.

Ha maybe. Actually, I've pretty much quite working there, place is so poorly run, deal with same crap everyday for years now. They are, in this regard, truly no good.

I'm a huge Brodie fan, huge. I'm not advocating anything other than giving him and Giordano a break. The season is done, I'm ok with that. I am also not talking about a tank job. But I am a firm believer in finding out if young guys are ready to step up. I want to see Wotherspoon and Nakladal every night from here on out. One of those guys gets signed for next year. And frankly I wouldn't mind both being back, been very happy with what they have done so far. Right now, to me, is all about next year.

I don't care if an allstar/future allstar D man can log huge minutes in what is essentially a meaningless game. Just looking for a shake up, something different. The same old same old looks fundamentally wrong to me right now.

[MarkGio]

40 days is not a lot. Then its just a matter of cheering for Dallas in the post season. Hopefully the Flames spend these 40 days giving guys like Hathaway more of a look.

[Gaskal]

I kept drunkenly referring to Hathaway as "Nintendo 64" to my friend during the game.

[calumniate]

Gg sans Wideman, Russell, Jones and hudler. I like the flyers too, but they have their playoffs on the line and Flames played decently. Maybe our new goalie will play next game, lol

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Not a benching, more of a break. I haven't been happy with their play for awhile now. They are two of the better skating, passing and offensively minded D men in the league. But their actual defensive play has been very suspect to me lately. Brodie alone had nearly two disastrous turnovers today. They might be tired or just in need of a shake up.

I have also never been overly keen on the pairing for the long term so now is a good a time as any to try things out.

I guarantee you they are tired. They're playing 25-30 a night and we're not talking soft Erik Karlsson minutes just standing at the blueline playing keep-in while the forwards cycle. They're constantly covering for neutral zone turnovers, high offensive zone turnovers, and then getting banged up in their own zone by relentless forechecks, the last three games have been especially physical on them. This team's refusal to clog up the neutral zone makes their minutes absolutely brutal. I'm not saying we need to trap, but the reality is the kind of minutes Gio and Brodie are playing are not minutes that any elite pairing in the league has to play. We need to get these two a break, and it will start with a middle pair that isn't bleeding profusely, which the Engelland middle pair is. We need Wideman back, and yeah I know Wideman has his issues but he's still way more of a capable NHL defenseman than Deryk Engelland.

[DropIt]

wasnt it 5-3?

[flamesfan1297]

^you are correct. I never noticed that until you just pointed it out.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by DropIt

wasnt it 5-3?

hey...with these many losses...it's hard to keep count of GA...or something...I dunno, thanks - I didn't even notice until I saw your post....

[N-E-B]

I think we're seeing the effects of not having Wideman in the lineup. Like him or not, he's a guy who can play some pretty big minutes. Brodie and Gio are awesome but they're human. They can't play 30mins/night and not be tired.

Happy Gaudreau and Monahan got points. Losing sucks.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

What happened to Giordano's grit? Him and Brodie are so soft it can be maddening. You know who I sit next game? One of Brodie or Giordano. They are soft and sloppy right now. Ease off their minutes as well. I am enjoying the play of Wotherspoon and Nakladal and hope they play out the season.

And Engelland was great tonight. Would love to see him paired with Brodie again.

They have been great at times this season but have also taken way too many nights off to be among the top pairings in the league. I wouldn't sit them but I wouldn't use the term "Norris caliber" for either of them. Nothing about being 30th in PK, 29th in PP and 28th in overall standings is Norris caliber.

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

They have been great at times this season but have also taken way too many nights off to be among the top pairings in the league. I wouldn't sit them but I wouldn't use the term "Norris caliber" for either of them. Nothing about being 30th in PK, 29th in PP and 28th in overall standings is Norris caliber.

While "not giving up on the season", my goals from here on out are:

See what Ortio has
Figure out the the pp and pk (though pp is well on its way)
Develop young d
Develop young fw

If that means sitting the top pair in an oiler game, I'll take it.

I would also not change the coaching staff in the off season. I'm a big fan of Hartley's motivation and his players tend to come to camp in shape. He runs a tough camp.

That said, if this team isn't .500 or better (real .500 where otl and sol are counted as losses) I'm looking for the next coach.

[gunnner]

A combination of Hartleys structure and our personal are going to lead to us being a league leader in goals against no matter if its Ortio, Reimer, Ward, or whoever in goal next year. I just fail to see what FA goalie or goalie via trade is significantly if even marginally better than what Ortio gave us this year. It doesnt matter, Hartley will neither need to adjust or we will have to expect to win games Ottawa style night after night.