[Trade] David Jones to Wild for G Niklas Backstrom and a 2016 6th round pick

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

I know the cool and popular thing to do it hate on Jones. He may have been a frustrating player at times, but he definetly played with heart and gave it his all. He was a Flame for over 2.5 seasons. Jones was a key part in our playoff run last year and was huge for us in the playoffs. It's not his fault he was injured quite a bit, or that he was overpaid. And it's certainly not his fault that Feaster made that trade.

So thank you for you time in Calgary David Jones.

Also,I think it is ridiculous that TheScorpions thread got closed. What's the big deal about it? Sure he's probably trolling but theres nothing wrong with an appreciation thread about a former Calgary Flame. Posters like him are what keep this forum interesting. I used to respect Jiri quite a bit, but I really think he should not have locked that thread, plus Jiris' comment before he locked it was a bit much. Especially for a mod.

Thank you. Guys, I actually really liked David Jones. He was a really good guy, and I appreciate it when a guy sticks around through a rebuild to help a team get to a better place.

I have been a Jones fan since he arrived here. Bought his jersey last November, and have followed him closely, whether he be playing on the fourth line or with the kids, since 2013. He strikes me as a really down-to-earth guy who gives it his all.

I'm really being sincere here. I like the underdogs. Jonesy was a ninth-rounder, who got written off multiple times, but he carved a respectable career for himself. A lot of people were miffed when we got him for Tanguay, but he soldiered on, scored some timely goals, and formed a formidable tandem with Ferland.

David Jones was my favourite Flame. I'll continue to cheer for him in Minnesota. And I hope that one day, in the right situation, we'll see him in the red and gold again.

[flamesfan1297]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Thank you. Guys, I actually really liked David Jones. He was a really good guy, and I appreciate it when a guy sticks around through a rebuild to help a team get to a better place.

I have been a Jones fan since he arrived here. Bought his jersey last November, and have followed him closely, whether he be playing on the fourth line or with the kids, since 2013. He strikes me as a really down-to-earth guy who gives it his all.

I'm really being sincere here. I like the underdogs. Jonesy was a ninth-rounder, who got written off multiple times, but he carved a respectable career for himself. A lot of people were miffed when we got him for Tanguay, but he soldiered on, scored some timely goals, and formed a formidable tandem with Ferland.

David Jones was my favourite Flame. I'll continue to cheer for him in Minnesota. And I hope that one day, in the right situation, we'll see him in the red and gold again.

Your welcome. I agree with your points on David Jones and I believe they are valid points. I appreciate that you started a thank you thread. Was ridiculous that it got closed.

[Enoch Root]

I am happy with the trade from the Flames perspective (they got something for him in a tough market), but I think the Wild get a steal of a deal.

Jones is a solid addition for the playoffs.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by flamesfan1297

Your welcome. I agree with your points on David Jones and I believe they are valid points. I appreciate that you started a thank you thread. Was ridiculous that it got closed.

I get that he was overpaid, but we needed to stay above the floor when he was first acquired - I feel like a lot of people forget that.

I'm legitimately happy that he gets to go to a better team.

By the way - the reason I posted so much in this thread is because I got a lot of hate for claiming to like Jonesy. I was not about to let that pile on. I was defending myself. As someone on this forum put it, "if we aren't allowed to fall in love with replaceable bottom-six players, then the terrorists have won." I guess we forget about that when the replaceable player is overpaid?

[corporatejay]

Is backstrom even able to play?

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Is backstrom even able to play?

Yeah, he's healthy. Could play a few games.

[#-3]

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

I think people overrate late draft picks allot.

You can also only make so many draft picks if you make 30 draft picks in 3 years and sign 80% of them, odds are only 2 will be in the NHL, so you will have 23 NHL players & 22 players on ELCs. That leaves 5 spots to resign prospects, give older players a second chance or sign College UFAs.

By averaging 10 draft picks / season you are basically deciding draftees on ECLs are the only route you will take to develop players.

Quality is allot more important than Quantity, and some times you are just better off not to drop your pants, and take nothing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by #-3

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

I think people overrate late draft picks allot.

You can also only make so many draft picks if you make 30 draft picks in 3 years and sign 80% of them, odds are only 2 will be in the NHL, so you will have 23 NHL players & 22 players on ELCs. That leaves 5 spots to resign prospects, give older players a second chance or sign College UFAs.

By averaging 10 draft picks / season you are basically deciding draftees on ECLs are the only route you will take to develop players.

Quality is allot more important than Quantity, and some times you are just better off not to drop your pants, and take nothing.

I'm more curious why you don't like the Russell trade

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by #-3

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

I think people overrate late draft picks allot.

You can also only make so many draft picks if you make 30 draft picks in 3 years and sign 80% of them, odds are only 2 will be in the NHL, so you will have 23 NHL players & 22 players on ELCs. That leaves 5 spots to resign prospects, give older players a second chance or sign College UFAs.

By averaging 10 draft picks / season you are basically deciding draftees on ECLs are the only route you will take to develop players.

Quality is allot more important than Quantity, and some times you are just better off not to drop your pants, and take nothing.

Haha.

Well, if this is the worst trade, I'll take it.

We may have 10 picks now (assuming we don't get Preds pick) but do you remember last draft? BT traded 3 of them away for a 22 year old #3 defenseman with #1 upside.

Also, having a high quantity of picks doesn't drop the quality of those picks. The Flames don't say "hey guys, we have 12 picks in this draft, so let's just throw darts at the draft list". They are still going to put everything they have into every pick they take.

Another also, just because you draft a ton of players over several years doesn't mean you have to sign all of them. It just means you have that players rights for an extra 2-4 years to see how they develop. If they develop poorly you cut them loose.

When you are rebuilding you need to have as many picks as possible so you have a better chance of drafting players who will become impact NHLers. Full stop.

If the Flames would have had a couple extra picks in 2011, we'd probably not only have Gaudreau, but also Kucherov, as he was a sleeper pick just like Johnny was for our scouting staff.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by #-3

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

? How so? The Flames gave up a player it's pretty clear that they weren't going to re-sign and only had irrelevant games (in the playoff race) and took back a lottery ticket with a side chance that they get a goaltender for the remainder of the irrelevant games. They kind of need goaltending help to close out the year but I feel it's a nothing for nothing trade with the edge in Calgary's favour as they could turn their nothing into some tangible product with luck. Worst case scenario, it's garbage for garbage. Nothing really happens then. Best case scenario, the Flames walk out with 5-10 games of goaltending and an NHLer. And they surrendered a 4th line player they probably wouldn't take back anyways for the last piece of the season...so the returns sound fine given the losses.

What you say about the draft pick is true. You're close to guessing which player will make the NHL in the 6th round. However, given the choice of a possibly stabilizing force on the Flames to close out the year (however unlikely this may be) plus the chance of an NHL player out of nothing vs keeping Jones for 20 meaningless games and not bringing him back...I'm taking the former.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I'm more curious why you don't like the Russell trade

clicked the wrong button.

I thought it was a good trade when it was a second.
Thought it was a very good trade when I found out about the conditional 1st.

Don't know much about either of the prospects.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by #-3

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

I think people overrate late draft picks allot.

[snip]

First off, it's not ‘allot’, but ‘a lot’. Not an important point, but that particular error sets my teeth on edge.

Secondly, not all draft picks have to be signed at the same time. If you've drafted college players, you have an extra two years to sign them compared to major junior players. Europeans have yet another set of rules. In the long run, it's very unlikely you'll go on averaging 10 draft picks year after year, so those signings can be spread out to cover leaner periods.

Thirdly, the Flames have not been averaging 10 picks a year, so your scenario is not a reality.

Fourthly, getting Jones off the books saves actual money and opens up a roster spot for a prospect. Those things are worth doing in this situation, whether or not the Flames get any other assets in return.

Fifthly, a sixth-round pick is worth more than nothing, which is what the Flames would have got for Jones at the end of the season. It doesn't matter whether you rate picks at a high value or a low one, their value is greater than zero.

Sixthly, if for some reason Treliving decided that the team had too many picks and just couldn't cope with it all, he could trade some of them for actual players, or use them as sweeteners on player-for-player deals.

Seventhly and lastly, there is no possible way the Flames can lose out on this trade, since they gave up nothing of any value to them. They traded a liability (Jones' salary) for a smaller liability (Backstrom's salary) and an asset (late pick). They don't increase their liabilities or decrease their assets. At worst, they get nothing for nothing.

[Racki]

So I think what's most important to note here is that #19 is now available. That is a kick ass number and should not be taken lightly.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by kirant

? How so? The Flames gave up a player it's pretty clear that they weren't going to re-sign and only had irrelevant games (in the playoff race) and took back a lottery ticket with a side chance that they get a goaltender for the remainder of the irrelevant games. They kind of need goaltending help to close out the year but I feel it's a nothing for nothing trade with the edge in Calgary's favour as they could turn their nothing into some tangible product.

What you say about the draft pick is true. You're close to guessing which player will make the NHL in the 6th round. However, given the choice of a possibly stabilizing force on the Flames (however unlikely this may be) plus the chance of an NHL player out of nothing vs keeping Jones for 20 meaningless games and not bringing him back...I'm taking the former.

Mostly I think Jones for a 6th is a pretty underwhelming return, and after you were able to add a couple of prospects and a couple of high draft picks, there wasn't a big need to chase underwhelming returns. If teams are not going to pay for playoff depths sellers should not hand it to them. Think about it this way Jones for a 6th - Backstrom, it's worse than the return for Tim Jackman.

Sometimes if people are not going to pay fairly you just need to cut your losses and let the player walk.

Worst move since then because their have not been allot of terrible trades in the last 3 years, bringing in Bollig or Galiardi are probably the only candidates.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by #-3

Mostly I think Jones for a 6th is a pretty underwhelming return, and after you were able to add a couple of prospects and a couple of high draft picks, there wasn't a big need to chase underwhelming returns. If teams are not going to pay for playoff depths sellers should not hand it to them. Think about it this way Jones for a 6th - Backstrom, it's worse than the return for Tim Jackman.

The valuation of Jones is probably where we disagree; I had Jones pegged at a 5th coming back, if even tradable. He's got a large salary for what he would have provided even at 50% salary retention (2 million at that point)...especially at a time when buying teams are typically looking at cap friendly players to bolster their team.

I would be disappointed with this had I thought Jones held more value.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

First off, it's not ‘allot’, but ‘a lot’. Not an important point, but that particular error sets my teeth on edge.That is really terrible for you

Secondly, not all draft picks have to be signed at the same time. If you've drafted college players, you have an extra two years to sign them compared to major junior players. Europeans have yet another set of rules. In the long run, it's very unlikely you'll go on averaging 10 draft picks year after year, so those signings can be spread out to cover leaner periods.You are right, I did think about this within the context of my example, but I was generalizing to make a point. You can only make so many draft picks. I wish I had taken sports statistics in college, I think you could do a really interesting case study on quantity of draft picks vs. quality of draft for the team. At a glance I doubt there is a strong correlation.

Thirdly, the Flames have not been averaging 10 picks a year, so your scenario is not a reality.The point I was trying to make, was there are ways to add players other than at the draft, and you should not lean on only 1 method, most teams can only afford to add about 8 ECLs / year. having all of them come from the draft is a good way to fail

Fourthly, getting Jones off the books saves actual money and opens up a roster spot for a prospect. Those things are worth doing in this situation, whether or not the Flames get any other assets in return.If Backstrom is healthy its actually a wash

Fifthly, a sixth-round pick is worth more than nothing, which is what the Flames would have got for Jones at the end of the season. It doesn't matter whether you rate picks at a high value or a low one, their value is greater than zero.

Sixthly, if for some reason Treliving decided that the team had too many picks and just couldn't cope with it all, he could trade some of them for actual players, or use them as sweeteners on player-for-player deals.

Seventhly and lastly, there is no possible way the Flames can lose out on this trade, since they gave up nothing of any value to them. They traded a liability (Jones' salary) for a smaller liability (Backstrom's salary) and an asset (late pick). They don't increase their liabilities or decrease their assets. At worst, they get nothing for nothing.This goes back to the example of how the Flames won the Cammaleri non-trade, had they trade Cammi for a 5th, what would they have gotten for Glecross, Berra, and Stempniak? not 2 2nds & 2 3rds. Sometimes making sure other GMs know you are not willing to bend over and take whatever the hell you can get is worth allot more that a late pick.

..

[FireItUp]

Originally Posted by #-3

Worst trade the Flames have made since they acquired Jones.

I think people overrate late draft picks allot.

You can also only make so many draft picks if you make 30 draft picks in 3 years and sign 80% of them, odds are only 2 will be in the NHL, so you will have 23 NHL players & 22 players on ELCs. That leaves 5 spots to resign prospects, give older players a second chance or sign College UFAs.

By averaging 10 draft picks / season you are basically deciding draftees on ECLs are the only route you will take to develop players.

Quality is allot more important than Quantity, and some times you are just better off not to drop your pants, and take nothing.

They may have a reason tho...

Doug Gilmour, 7th round
Brett Hull, 6th round (Flames Pick)
Dominik Hasek, 10th round
Luc Robitaille, 9th round
Theo Fleury, 8th round (Flames Pick)
Daniel Alfredsson, 6th round
Pavel Datsyuk, 6th round
Henrik Zetterberg, 7th round
Henrik Lundqvist, 7th round
Jamie Benn, 5th round
Pekka Rinne, 9th round
Andrew Shaw, 5th round
Mikka Kiprusoff, 5th round
Ondrej Palat 7th round
Carl Hagelin, 6th round
Anton Stralman, 7th round
Mark Streit, 9th round
Joe Pavelski, 7th round
Brian Campbell, 6th round
Tomas Holmstrom, 10th round
Pavol Demitra, 9th round
Kimmo Timonen, 10th round
Peter Bondra, 8th round
Pavel Bure, 6th round
Alexander Mogilny, 5th round
Igor Larionov, 11th round
Rick Tocchet, 6th round

[shadowlord]

Originally Posted by #-3

Quality is allot more important than Quantity, and some times you are just better off not to drop your pants, and take nothing.

Jim Benning, is that you?

We could always try packaging up Smid + Colborne (or prospect) + 6th round pick in the off-season for some goaltending help.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by #-3

Mostly I think Jones for a 6th is a pretty underwhelming return, and after you were able to add a couple of prospects and a couple of high draft picks, there wasn't a big need to chase underwhelming returns. If teams are not going to pay for playoff depths sellers should not hand it to them. Think about it this way Jones for a 6th - Backstrom, it's worse than the return for Tim Jackman.

Sometimes if people are not going to pay fairly you just need to cut your losses and let the player walk.

Worst move since then because their have not been allot of terrible trades in the last 3 years, bringing in Bollig or Galiardi are probably the only candidates.

Come on man, really? The best thing about the Jones deal is the open roster spot that a prospect can use. The draft pick is just a bonus. Nothing underwhelming about the trade at all. Jones had virtually no value, Treliving should be applauded for getting anything. $5 bet that he doesn't get more than a try-out offer next off-season?

[Mister Yamoto]

Does it open a roster spot though? 1 player out, 1 player in, right? Back to having three terrible goalies instead of two. Time will tell if that is worth a sixth round draft pick but to me this deal is just so meh why even bother. I'm not for or against this trade. Completely indifferent actually.