[News] Bettman upholds 20 game Wideman suspension. NHLPA files appeal to neutral arbitrator

[normtwofinger]

A debacle of monumental proportions.

[Robbob]

The arb hearing should have been scheduled earlier in the week so it didn't drag over a weekend. At this point the only hope is that the ruling is leaked (or the intended ruling ) Monday morning.

[browna]

Ever since the 20 games mark was instituted, and then appealed right away, it became very little about the player/team and more about the NHL/NHLPA. Even moreso when the suspension wasn't reduced. The Flames are the only losers for not getting his services, Wideman potentially gets his $ back.

Trade deadline or not, I don't thiink that fact that there is no decision that affects either way his tradability. If he was an expiring contract then absolutely, but if a team is already committed to taking him on for the rest of this year, and next, another week and a half after Monday of him not in a teams lineup (if full 20 is again upheld) is not likely to deter that team.

The bigger deterrent is his perceived "marked" status from referees going forward IMO.

[Locke]

This isnt about the Flames, the League, Wideman, the officials or any of that.

This is all about the NHL setting a precedent in regards to the Concussion lawsuits.

They're scapegoating Wideman and they're going to throw the Flames under the bus for not following their concussion protocol.

This is all about the league trying to shift blame to the individual teams.

Now its on to see if the teams deflect that blame on to the trainers and staff. I hope they dont.

[JohnnyT]

Originally Posted by Locke

This isnt about the Flames, the League, Wideman, the officials or any of that.

This is all about the NHL setting a precedent in regards to the Concussion lawsuits.

They're scapegoating Wideman and they're going to throw the Flames under the bus for not following their concussion protocol.

This is all about the league trying to shift blame to the individual teams.

Now its on to see if the teams deflect that blame on to the trainers and staff. I hope they dont.

Just a point of contention, they did follow concussion protocol, the player has the right to tell the training staff that they believe they are fine and not leave the game per the CBA. They can try to convince him as much as they want, but if Wideman never says ya lets go get it checked out the trainers can't pull him out of the game.

If you want to believe its bigger than the Flames v the NHL you would probably be right, but more along the lines of NHLPA v NHL with this being the first time the independent arbitrator has been used

[MoreDrank]

Pierre LeBrun reporting that the ruling is going to take a long time...

News Update

ESPN NHL coverage Verified account ‏@ESPN_NHL

Sources: Dennis Wideman ruling not expected until week of March 7

[Locke]

Originally Posted by JohnnyT

Just a point of contention, they did follow concussion protocol, the player has the right to tell the training staff that they believe they are fine and not leave the game per the CBA. They can try to convince him as much as they want, but if Wideman never says ya lets go get it checked out the trainers can't pull him out of the game.

If you want to believe its bigger than the Flames v the NHL you would probably be right, but more along the lines of NHLPA v NHL with this being the first time the independent arbitrator has been used

First of all, I'm going to disagree with you. I'll admit that I do not have any evidence to back this up but it is my belief that the training staff absolutely have the right to remove the player with or without his consent if they feel he has been concussed.

Its important because recently concussed individuals, especially athletes, always feel they're fine and its game on!

As for PA/NHL again, I disagree.

Its about the NHL attempting to set a precedent that passes the buck on current and any future concussion lawsuits.

"We set the protocol, if they dont follow it then thats not our fault, its on them. Dont sue us. Sue them."

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Pierre LeBrun reporting that the ruling is going to take a long time...

News Update

ESPN NHL coverage Verified account ‏@ESPN_NHL

Sources: Dennis Wideman ruling not expected until week of March 7

OK, this is actually ridiculous.

The incident occurred on January 27!

It will have taken a month and 10 days until the ruling - and that's at the earliest.

Also, fun fact: by March 7, the Flames will have played 18 games since the incident - and, since the decision isn't expected since 'the week of March 7', it's entirely possible that Wideman's suspension will have ended by the time the ruling is finally presented.

This is asinine.

[ComixZone]

What a ridiculous bloody process.

So really, this third party dealio is just for the player to (hopefully) regain $ lost during his suspension, and not the length of the suspension itself.

[Robbob]

Yeah, at earliest 41 days from the Nashville game.

[Aegypticus]

If there's one thing this whole process has made clear to me, it's why the PA got annihilated by the league in the last two CBA negotiations. They just aren't on the same level of competence. Everything from how the appeals process grossly favours the league to how the PA handled Wideman's defence tells me that whenever the two sides go toe to toe it's men against boys.

[Buck Murdock]

Decision in the week of March 7th? thats a complete joke.

[JohnnyT]

Posted this as a reply to Reddit comment but figured it was applicable here too:

Original hit happened January 27th, if the final appeal decision happens on the 7th (Monday) it will have been 40 full days since the hit happened.
Important to remember this process is possible for all suspensions of 6 games or more. Wideman will be on his 18th game the day of the 7th. There's no way this process is working effectively if this a normal timeline.

Also what happens if I player is suspended close to the end of the regular season, misses playoff games while going through the process, his team loses, and then the arbitrator decides that he should have a available for at least 1 playoff game? What does the team that is now watching instead of playing get for this?

Its fair to argue whether or not Wideman deserved 20 or less or more, but I really think the bigger issue here is how slow and inefficient this process is proving to be. If this appeal process is for suspensions 6 games or longer then it should not take more than 6 games at the most to complete.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Buck Murdock

Decision in the week of March 7th? thats a complete joke.

More than a joke, It's a bit smelly IMO.

If Wideman's suspension gets reduced to say 10 games he gets half his $$ back but Bettman/league still looks good because he didn't play. Flames are the real loosers.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Pierre LeBrun reporting that the ruling is going to take a long time...

News Update

ESPN NHL coverage Verified account ‏@ESPN_NHL

Sources: Dennis Wideman ruling not expected until week of March 7

I bet the Flames are pissed. Maybe they had some offers on Wideman pending on the outcome

[powderjunkie]

I wonder if the process would have been a lot faster for a team in the east, especially one close to NYC?

Can't imagine a reason why it could even take until the 7th?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Locke

This is all about the NHL setting a precedent in regards to the Concussion lawsuits.

Why are we blaming the NHL?

The NHL suspended Wideman 20 games for his crosscheck. They saw it as intentional, rightfully or wrongfully. It had nothing to do with a concussion. It was Wideman in the media telling everyone he was fine from the hit and just didn't see the linesman.


It was the NHLPA who hired two concussion experts to testify the impacts of concussion for Wideman's appeal. They were the ones who wrote reports on how Wideman's impulse control was affected by the hit and how his behaviour changed after a half hour skype call with the doctors (in between hiking and golfing)...

Originally Posted by Report

"Indeed, behavioural changes — including
aggressive and even combative behaviours — are commonly reported behavioural hallmarks of head
trauma. "

Originally Posted by Report

"it is my view that Mr. Wideman's usual capacity to exercise his
judgment and to control his impulses was significantly affected by the head trauma that he experienced
during the January 27, 2016 game for the period immediately after that incident. "

I don't see why we're letting the NHLPA off the hook, they wanted to make this as much of a concussion incident as possible. If Wideman had just said it was an accident and fought for a reduce sentence following Rule 40, maybe they do and everyone is 'happy.' Instead the NHLPA was blowing smoke up Campbell's ass about how Wideman can't be suspended when he had no control of his actions and was concussed. And I'm sure if Wideman attacked another player like that instead of an official, the NHLPA isn't going to bat about how you can't suspend individuals because they are concussed, but because it's a rare situation where only one player was involved in the altercation, it made it a perfect opportunity for the NHLPA.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I wonder if the process would have been a lot faster for a team in the east, especially one close to NYC?

Can't imagine a reason why it could even take until the 7th?

If the independent arbitrator thought it was a cut and dry reduction he would have ruled to ensure the player won't miss any more games than the reducement. It's very likely there will be little or no reduction in the suspension.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I think people complaining about the time it's taken to go through the process don't quite understand the arguments being made by the NHLPA. This shouldn't be a quick decision, it would be catastrophic to rule it one way or the other so easily.

If Wideman simply said "Eh, it was an accident, my bad." We probably have a decision made by now (maybe not one that Wideman would like, but still).

The NHLPA hired concussion experts with the goal of arguing that Wideman was not liable because he was concussed. They hired experts who wrote reports saying that concussion affects impulse controls, behaviour, aggressiveness and combativeness. It's no longer just a "Whoops, I didn't see him until last second" argument. Although not ruling it out as simply an accident, the experts are essentially saying that if it wasn't an accident, Wideman still didn't do it intentionally because he was concussed. That's what the NHLPA is arguing when they released the statement saying they were going to the neutral third party.

Remember when Chris Simon was drilled into the boards and came back at Hollweg with a vicious two-handed slash to the head? All it takes is Chris Simon to say he doesn't remember the incident and he's ruled concussed, no suspension. That's the argument that the NHLPA is saying and that's the precedent that the NHL needs to prevent. Every single retaliated hit "oh my bad, I was feeling woozy." And since it's a concussion, doesn't even need to be a hit that shift, heck that period. Go back a couple minutes, say that's the hit that affected your brain and you're still in the clear. We don't have the expertise yet to diagnosis concussions 100%, as long as the player says the right thing they'll get the diagnosis. Look at this incident itself. Wideman continued to play after the hit, not missing a shift. He was coherent to the media. He said he wasn't woozy. He was hiking and golfing 48 hours later. All he had to do was tell the doctors that he couldn't remember the incident clearly and they said he was concussed - 4 days later.

[Vulcan]

Whatever Wideman said after the incident doesn't mean much to me. What he did was completely out of character and attacking an official shows he didn't realize who it was. I can see someone getting the book thrown at them when in the middle of a conflict they attack an official but this was just him skating back to the bench. Sure he smacked his stick on the ice to signal a change but this is just a procedural memory.

Procedural memory (“knowing how”) is the unconscious memory of skills and how to do things, particularly the use of objects or movements of the body, such as tying a shoelace, playing a guitar or riding a bike.

http://www.human-memory.net/types_declarative.html