Teacher's Salary Increase Possible

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Out of curiousity how many workers were effected by the increase.

At the end of the day to me, with the budget spiralling out of control, and the day to day operations of government running a deficit any increase right now is outrageous.

It might be wrong, but when I searched for public sector employees and salary stats, in 2011 Alberta was spending more then 20 billion on salaries for over 345,000 workers.

Like I said I could be mis-interpreting the stats. But that means that the average salary is $58,000. So a 2% increase lets say across the board is $1160 x 345000 is over $400 million a year in increases, so if its 2% per year, thats a sizable increase since 2011 of about what 2 billion.

Like I said the PC's are firmly in the blame circle, but in these times, where the budget is in deficit its a huge issue, especially the day to day operating budget.

Right now even 1 to 2% increases aren't affordable.

I want to say around 5000 were affected. The negotiations began last March, so a lot of this lies with the PCs too. The NDP would have been powerless to affect a number that was probably, more or less, decided way in advance.

The real issue is not salary, but pensions. I automatically pay 19.6% of my income into a pension fund, which is matched dollar for dollar by the University.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Out of curiousity how many workers were effected by the increase.

At the end of the day to me, with the budget spiralling out of control, and the day to day operations of government running a deficit any increase right now is outrageous.

It might be wrong, but when I searched for public sector employees and salary stats, in 2011 Alberta was spending more then 20 billion on salaries for over 345,000 workers.

Like I said I could be mis-interpreting the stats. But that means that the average salary is $58,000. So a 2% increase lets say across the board is $1160 x 345000 is over $400 million a year in increases, so if its 2% per year, thats a sizable increase since 2011 of about what 2 billion.

Like I said the PC's are firmly in the blame circle, but in these times, where the budget is in deficit its a huge issue, especially the day to day operating budget.

Right now even 1 to 2% increases aren't affordable.

No one is saying that increases are agreeable at this point in time.

But to say that a 1-2% increase in wages per annum is unreasonable (in any profession) is demanding acceptance of a year over year erosion in purchasing power due to inflation. Call it what you want, but wage freezes are economic pay cuts. Teachers took it on the chin to have the privilege of continuing to work in the same bullsh*t environment and still get harassed by the public repeatedly for it.

Quite honestly, I wish my SO would stop teaching. The amount of garbage she puts up with from parents and students, combined with the complete lack of support from the school board is enough to drive someone insane. And then I have to put the pieces back together every goddamn day.

Then as if that isn't enough, the general population of the province who knows absolutely nothing about the profession piles on and says that teacher's need to take a pay cut to put up with the same terribly flawed system. Dragged through the mud, yet again.

That private sector employees are taking it on the chin, therefore public sector employees should too is a poorly constructed argument. Private sector employees choose to work in an industry that is driven by a commodity cycle. BY DOING SO WE ACCEPT THE RISK INVOLVED, and get compensated accordingly in both good times (bonuses, raises, yachts, yay!) and bad (layoffs, pay cuts, ouch). However, people forget that due to the success of our province, the cost of living, and therefore the cost of providing ancillary services (teaching?) will inherently be higher here than elsewhere in the country. Teachers still have to pay the same bloated prices for consumer goods as an O&G engineer folks.......

Education is a basic necessity of society. Just because the price of oil is down doesn't mean that classroom sizes have decreased, or that the coded kids in Alberta's classrooms have somehow miraculously become easier to deal with. Does the system need to become more efficient? Absolutely. Front-line workers are not the problem, but they sure as hell become the scapegoat at times like this.

Threads like this bring out the worst in me. I get infuriated. Am I biased? Yes.
But the inevitably terrible, one sided, cliche arguments that get brought up every time are so predictable, and do not consider the entirety of the issue.

Teachers are not government subsidized day care. Although it appears that a lot of people in this province think that's about all there is to it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

No one is saying that increases are agreeable at this point in time.

But to say that a 1-2% increase in wages per annum is unreasonable (in any profession) is demanding acceptance of a year over year erosion in purchasing power due to inflation. Call it what you want, but wage freezes are economic pay cuts. Teachers took it on the chin to have the privilege of continuing to work in the same bullsh*t environment and still get harassed by the public repeatedly for it.

Quite honestly, I wish my SO would stop teaching. The amount of garbage she puts up with from parents and students, combined with the complete lack of support from the school board is enough to drive someone insane. And then I have to put the pieces back together every goddamn day.

Then as if that isn't enough, the general population of the province who knows absolutely nothing about the profession piles on and says that teacher's need to take a pay cut to put up with the same terribly flawed system. Dragged through the mud, yet again.

That private sector employees are taking it on the chin, therefore public sector employees should too is a poorly constructed argument. Private sector employees choose to work in an industry that is driven by a commodity cycle. BY DOING SO WE ACCEPT THE RISK INVOLVED, and get compensated accordingly in both good times (bonuses, raises, yachts, yay!) and bad (layoffs, pay cuts, ouch). However, people forget that due to the success of our province, the cost of living, and therefore the cost of providing ancillary services (teaching?) will inherently be higher here than elsewhere in the country. Teachers still have to pay the same bloated prices for consumer goods as an O&G engineer folks.......

Education is a basic necessity of society. Just because the price of oil is down doesn't mean that classroom sizes have decreased, or that the coded kids in Alberta's classrooms have somehow miraculously become easier to deal with. Does the system need to become more efficient? Absolutely. Front-line workers are not the problem, but they sure as hell become the scapegoat at times like this.

Threads like this bring out the worst in me. I get infuriated. Am I biased? Yes.
But the inevitably terrible, one sided, cliche arguments that get brought up every time are so predictable, and do not consider the entirety of the issue.

Teachers are not government subsidized day care. Although it appears that a lot of people in this province think that's about all there is to it.

The yin to my yang, everybody.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

It's worthwhile for Alberta teachers to consider why it is they earn $20k a year more than their counterparts in New Brunswick. Hint: it isn't the mountains.

What an insightful comment, and one that truly considers each facet of the economic differences between the provinces.

Do you suppose that $20k/year more is reasonable given the disparity of cost of living between provinces?

The average home price in New Brunswick in June 2015 was $164,000.

What do you suppose the average home price in Alberta was?

Hint: it was higher than $164,000 (try $403,000).

What do you suppose the change in CPI between the provinces was?

Using 2002 as the baseline (100), per Stats Canada, New Brunswick CPI increased to 125.5 as at Dec. 2015.

What do you suppose the CPI did in Alberta over the same time period?

Hint: it increased substantially more (to 133.5).

But don't let a simple thing like actual numbers cloud your well informed opinion.

[Looch City]

I have a SO that's just finishing her teaching degree at UofC this spring. You guys are making me nervous haha fun times ahead?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

No one is saying that increases are agreeable at this point in time.

But to say that a 1-2% increase in wages per annum is unreasonable (in any profession) is demanding acceptance of a year over year erosion in purchasing power due to inflation. Call it what you want, but wage freezes are economic pay cuts. Teachers took it on the chin to have the privilege of continuing to work in the same bullsh*t environment and still get harassed by the public repeatedly for it.

Quite honestly, I wish my SO would stop teaching. The amount of garbage she puts up with from parents and students, combined with the complete lack of support from the school board is enough to drive someone insane. And then I have to put the pieces back together every goddamn day.

So, what would make your SO's life better? Improved working conditions, or an extra 1-2% per year in salary? As an example, if each school could hire an additional Education Assistant, wouldn't that make things better?

I think that's what the OP was getting at.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The yin to my yang, everybody.

Compliment accepted.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So, what would make your SO's life better? Improved working conditions, or an extra 1-2% per year in salary? As an example, if each school could hire an additional Education Assistant, wouldn't that make things better?

I think that's what the OP was getting at.

No issues with the OP's post.

Salary increases mean nothing to her. She isn't in it for the money, she wants to make a positive difference in society. I don't think she even knows what day of the month her paycheck is deposited.

Off the top of my head changes that would be helpful:

1. Additional classroom support.
2. Additional funding for basic classroom and teaching supplies.
3. Effective methods to discipline children. Teacher's have minimal ways to actually address disruptive behavior. There are currently zero consequences to poor academic / social behavior.
4. More consistent curriculum, requirements are always changing.

Those are a few, I'm sure there are many more.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

What an insightful comment, and one that truly considers each facet of the economic differences between the provinces.

Do you suppose that $20k/year more is reasonable given the disparity of cost of living between provinces?

The difference in cost of living between Alberta and New Brunswick doesn't come close to accounting for the difference in salaries. Teachers in Calgary don't pay $20,000 a year more on their mortgage than teachers in New Brunswick do. And that's not taking into account with difference in income tax rates, which see the Alberta teachers taking home more of that paycheque.

Again, why do Alberta teachers pay such low income tax? What is it that allows up to pay public servants high salaries with such low tax rates? And what happens when revenue from that that special thing that Alberta has dries up?

The fact is, Alberta teachers are among the highest paid in the world. If their compensation is barely enough to attract and keep qualified teachers, then what does that say about the UK, where teachers earn $41k on average? Or Germany (54k), Australia (44k), France (33k), or Japan (46k)? That the education system in every one of those countries is terrible?

How the job of a teacher compares around the world

[Ashartus]

Between my wife and other teachers I've talked to, none are looking for a wage increase. They recognize they got lucky a few years ago when they had a contract tied to the Alberta average weekly wage index which got them some big raises.

Our public sector salaries are out of line with other provinces because so are our private sector salaries, but as the private sector is going through a bit of a correction it's not unreasonable to expect public sector compensation to be frozen at best until a bit more in line.

[Kjesse]

I have some good friends who are teachers and they aren't complaining, especially given their spouses have either had their salaries frozen, rolled back, or have been terminated.

This ATA guy is beating the drums but as a non-teacher taxpayer, I'm glad he's at the helm, he comes across as a fool.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The difference in cost of living between Alberta and New Brunswick doesn't come close to accounting for the difference in salaries. Teachers in Calgary don't pay $20,000 a year more on their mortgage than teachers in New Brunswick do. And that's not taking into account with difference in income tax rates, which see the Alberta teachers taking home more of that paycheque.

Again, why do Alberta teachers pay such low income tax? What is it that allows up to pay public servants high salaries with such low tax rates? And what happens when revenue from that that special thing that Alberta has dries up?

The fact is, Alberta teachers are among the highest paid in the world. If their compensation is barely enough to attract and keep qualified teachers, then what does that say about the UK, where teachers earn $41k on average? Or Germany (54k), Australia (44k), France (33k), or Japan (46k)? That the education system in every one of those countries is terrible?

How the job of a teacher compares around the world

You comparing Alberta teachers to those around the world is a similarly inane argument to comparing Alberta's heritage fund to that of Norway's sovereign wealth fund. Comparing national teaching statistics of each of those countries to the provincial statistics of Alberta does not isolate the economic differences experienced by various sectors of a country's population. It's apples to bananas. Feel free to compare Canadian aggregate statistics to those of other countries, that is a fair comparison.

As for cost of living. The following assumes all variables are the same, except the price of a home.

5 Year Fixed Rate: 2.4%
Amortization Period: 25 Years
Down Payment: 20%

NB Home Price = $160,000. Mortgage = $128,000.

Annual mortgage cost: $6,804.48

AB Home Price = $400,000. Mortgage = $320,000

Annual mortgage cost: $17,011.20

This is a difference in mortgage payments alone of $10,206.72 per year. That doesn't take into account the cost of every single consumer good being far higher in Alberta than in New Brunswick, or the fact that the discrepancy between the prices of consumer goods in Alberta is increasing at a far faster rate than in New Brunswick. Not to mention you actually need to have the ability to put down 20% equity on a home, or the price sky rockets on an annual basis.

Further, that doesn't even begin to address the issue of Alberta's rampant population growth and the corresponding demand for teaching services.

[Kjesse]

Iliketopuck, keep in mind your arguments show a far left wing view of the world, we don't all share that view. Its not about teachers buying houses.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Iliketopuck, keep in mind your arguments show a far left wing view of the world, we don't all share that view. Its not about teachers buying houses.

The right of someone to own a home is completely separate from the debate at hand.

I simply used numbers to illustrate the cost of living discrepancy between Alberta and New Brunswick.

Feel free to quote the cost of renting an apartment instead if that's your preference. The numbers will be similarly higher in Alberta vs. New Brunswick. The same premise applies.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The difference in cost of living between Alberta and New Brunswick doesn't come close to accounting for the difference in salaries. Teachers in Calgary don't pay $20,000 a year more on their mortgage than teachers in New Brunswick do. And that's not taking into account with difference in income tax rates, which see the Alberta teachers taking home more of that paycheque.

Again, why do Alberta teachers pay such low income tax? What is it that allows up to pay public servants high salaries with such low tax rates? And what happens when revenue from that that special thing that Alberta has dries up?

The fact is, Alberta teachers are among the highest paid in the world. If their compensation is barely enough to attract and keep qualified teachers, then what does that say about the UK, where teachers earn $41k on average? Or Germany (54k), Australia (44k), France (33k), or Japan (46k)? That the education system in every one of those countries is terrible?

How the job of a teacher compares around the world

I honestly don't understand the point you are trying to make. This thread is made up of teachers who are saying that they don't want more money and believe they are fairly compensated and the spouse of a teacher who is arguing that teaching is no picnic and that it wouldn't be beyond the realm of reason to give people a raise in accordance with inflation while also saying that the spouse does not care for a raise at all.

I have been in different schools for 5 years now, and I have never heard a teacher mention anything about salary increases. Not once. If your argument is that teachers should take a cut, then you should frame it as such and we can discuss accordingly, but it seems that you are butting heads with a narrative that doesn't actually exist.

My own contribution to this is that I am now working for a Charter School and it is like a dream. It's funding is sunk directly into the school with next to no waste, it has autonomy to make decisions and mold it's direction based on the guidance of exceptional leadership. It can change course and implement new ideas on a dime. We are beholden to no one other than our charter and the results that we produce, which are incredible. Best of all, we are not in the ATA and bad teachers are not protected. Charter Schools across the province and North America experience similar results, but despite giant waitlists to get into these schools, there does not seem to be much momentum towards dismantling large school boards and taking the hammer away from the Union.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The difference in cost of living between Alberta and New Brunswick doesn't come close to accounting for the difference in salaries. Teachers in Calgary don't pay $20,000 a year more on their mortgage than teachers in New Brunswick do. And that's not taking into account with difference in income tax rates, which see the Alberta teachers taking home more of that paycheque.

Again, why do Alberta teachers pay such low income tax? What is it that allows up to pay public servants high salaries with such low tax rates? And what happens when revenue from that that special thing that Alberta has dries up?

The fact is, Alberta teachers are among the highest paid in the world. If their compensation is barely enough to attract and keep qualified teachers, then what does that say about the UK, where teachers earn $41k on average? Or Germany (54k), Australia (44k), France (33k), or Japan (46k)? That the education system in every one of those countries is terrible?

How the job of a teacher compares around the world

2013 Median total incomes:
Alberta = $97390
New Brunswick = $67340
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...il108a-eng.htm

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

No issues with the OP's post.

Salary increases mean nothing to her. She isn't in it for the money, she wants to make a positive difference in society. I don't think she even knows what day of the month her paycheck is deposited.

Off the top of my head changes that would be helpful:

1. Additional classroom support.
2. Additional funding for basic classroom and teaching supplies.
3. Effective methods to discipline children. Teacher's have minimal ways to actually address disruptive behavior. There are currently zero consequences to poor academic / social behavior.
4. More consistent curriculum, requirements are always changing.

Those are a few, I'm sure there are many more.

Would she sacrifice salary in exchange for 1 and 2? 5%? 10%? 20%? Would other teachers do the same? And I don't mean strictly a pay cut, but a combination of wage freeze/ future increases/ pension adjustments etc.. Just curious

The entire education system is completely broken and teachers salaries are the very least of its problems.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

No issues with the OP's post.

Salary increases mean nothing to her. She isn't in it for the money, she wants to make a positive difference in society. I don't think she even knows what day of the month her paycheck is deposited.

Off the top of my head changes that would be helpful:

1. Additional classroom support.
2. Additional funding for basic classroom and teaching supplies.
3. Effective methods to discipline children. Teacher's have minimal ways to actually address disruptive behavior. There are currently zero consequences to poor academic / social behavior.
4. More consistent curriculum, requirements are always changing.

Those are a few, I'm sure there are many more.

I have no issue with this list at all, but I'm most interested in #3. Its not that I think that there isn't a problem here, but I would like to know what teachers think could/should be done in that area. I hope that the answer isn't some generalized "more support from parents" kind of thing, because I really don't see that as an actual solution.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Would she sacrifice salary in exchange for 1 and 2? 5%? 10%? 20%? Would other teachers do the same? Just curious

The entire education system is completely broken and teachers salaries are the very least of its problems.

She absolutely would. And has stated it many times.

I'm curious though. Is me subsidizing the costs of the Alberta education system through the purchase of basic school necessities not an insidious form of a salary cut? And after tax to boot.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Iliketopuck, keep in mind your arguments show a far left wing view of the world, we don't all share that view. Its not about teachers buying houses.

How is basic math a far left wing view of the world?