Ontario govt. announce free post-secondary tuition for families making under $50k

[accord1999]

Must suck to be a final year University student in Ontario right now with a family income of less than 50K. Still probably have student loans to pay-off, more taxes to pay for the new subsidy and may need to compete with graduating students in a few years time who have much less debt load to worry about.

[Tacopuck]

While I believe governments should subsidize Post-Secondary, (keep costs reasonable ie Canadian Tuition versus US Tuition) I'm 100% against it being free. I've met alot of Europeans from countries that provided free school and they signed up for school just to say they were still a student, but they would put zero effort into the classes because there was no repercussions for failing.

This is exactly why post secondary shouldnt be free. Young adults (yes I realize older adults go to school as well however they are a significantly smaller %) need to learn that life has consequences for failing to meet expectations, because that's the way the world works.

Now these consequences shouldn't ruin any students future life (ie crippling debt) but failing a course that cost you $500 at that age is a real good wake up call and learning lesson.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Is there a phase out provision, or just a bright line test? $50,200 is too much, but $49,800 is just fine?

Put me in the camp that I don't think post-secondary should be free. In my eyes post-secondary is an investment. You pay upfront to increase your future earnings over your lifetime. Not sure why some people should get a free pass on the upfront "fee" so to speak. This will just encourage more people to go to university for degrees that really don't have much value.

Because this isn't necessarily true. Most tuition payments are relatively equal (for undergrads anyways). Not so much for their future potential earnings.

And putting the whole arts vs science degrees thing aside, a degree of some sort is pretty much expected now for any industry with any sort of upside. It's not so much as an advantage to have one as it is a disadvantage not to.

As for the second point about going to get degrees that don't have value...why? Why would anyone who has personal interests go against those just so they can get a fine arts degree or something. People who like science will do science, people who like arts will do arts. People who want money will go into the things that give them the greatest opportunity at it.

[sureLoss]

http://globalnews.ca/news/2540934/on.../?sf21550433=1

University and college will soon be free for students from low-income families and more affordable for those from middle-class homes. The Ontario government’s 2016 budget includes a complete overhaul of the province’s current assistance program, which Finance Minister Charles Sousa called “complex and convoluted.” The minister said the new system will be more accessible but cost taxpayers roughly the same amount. Here’s what the changes will mean for some of those who qualify:

University student living at home, tuition $6,160, family income of $45,000:

Total expenses: $12,608

Total assistance: $9,607 (down $1)

Grant: $6,860 (up $3,109)

Loan: $2,747 (down $3,110)



University student living at home, tuition $6,160, family income of $40,000, scholarship worth $5,000:

Total expenses: $12,600

Total assistance: $7,837

Grant: $6,050 (up $2,299)

Loan: $1,787 (down $1,079)



University student living in residence, tuition $6,160, family income of $80,000:

Total expenses: $18,000

Total assistance: $15,000 (up $2,257)

Grant: $6,042 (up $699)

Loan: $8,958 (up $1,558)

Parents no longer expected to contribute



College student living at home, tuition $2,768, family income of $40,000:

Total expenses: $8,900

Total assistance: $5,914 (same)

Grant: $5,383 (up $2,612)

Loan: $531 (down $2,612)



College student living at home, tuition $2,768, family income of $80,000:

Total expenses: $8,900

Total assistance: $5,914 (up $1,533)

Grant: $3,468 (up $1,827)

Loan: $2,446 (up $294)

Parents no longer expected to contribute

[polak]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I take it that we still don't care about plumbers or carpenters or sparkies, even though we need those skills way more than university grads.

Yeah I think this should exclusively be aimed at specific fields and should have strict academic standards to qualify.

I don't want to pay for kids to take guitar in university or people who are doing it just to get their parents off their back and are going to drop out anyways.

This can be done right in a way that will benefit everyone.

[Weitz]

I am personally against free university as I feel people squander their opportunity. Same goes when parents pay for their kids education. Saw that a lot.

[undercoverbrother]

It has been years since I was in Uni. and I paid for myself. My parents or government paid nothing.

Therefore, I am against this.

Also, get off my lawn.

[Lubicon]

'Free' is a bit of a misnomer because this certainly isn't free to anyone, at the end of the day the Ontario taxpayer is picking up the tab. 'No charge' is a more accurate description.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I take it that we still don't care about plumbers or carpenters or sparkies, even though we need those skills way more than university grads.

Don't people goes to school, post secondary for those skills?

NAIT and SAIT have those programs.


Shirley those would be included.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

It has been years since I was in Uni. and I paid for myself. My parents or government paid nothing.

Therefore, I am against this.

Also, get off my lawn.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by GGG

In general I'm against free tuition. But if you were to do it it should be targeted at areas of economic need like the EI retraining programs and not just liberal arts programs.

I much prefer a student loan program. All schooling should increase employability such that it made economic sense to go.

This also completely ignores the fact that someone living at home vs someone who has to leave home to go to school. Student Load forgiveness upon completion based on income would be a much better way to go about this.

I see this term used a lot, as though it is a bad thing to have a liberal arts degree. This confuses me, because I assume people are just misunderstanding what a liberal arts degree is, or there is some meaning for it that I am completely unaware of.


From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_arts_education

Academic areas that can be associated with the term liberal arts include:

Arts (fine arts, music, performing arts)
Languages
Linguistics
Literature
Mathematics
Natural science (biology, chemistry, physics, astronomy, earth science)
Philosophy
Psychology
Religious studies
Social science (economics, geography, political science, sociology, history)

On the actual topic. I think post secondary should be accessible to everyone.

In some cases, this means free. In some cases, it means subsidized. I am fine with this line being income tested.

Sucks for kids whose parents are earning 83k but can't afford to send them, because they will be screwed until they are 25, but that's because the parents suck, not because the system sucks.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by MattyC

funny picture

I thought the "get of my law" was enough..

[Kavvy]

You got to have a balance budget before you hand our more entitlements.

This is a scam as they can't pay for it yet. What am I missing?

Going into debt shouldn't be a long term solution.

[CaptainCrunch]

Nothing is ever free.

Ontario is basically trying to follow Quebec's model of finance, but eventually that gravy train comes to an end.

And if I was mistaken Wynn was basically begging the conservative's for a bailout, I'm sure that Justin will send her a bunch of money to reward her for campaigning so hard for him.

[burn_this_city]

How Greecy of them, this will end well when they spend more on debt financing than the operating budget. I read somewhere that Ontario is the most indebted sub state in the world.

[troutman]

Wait, so just anyone can go to Queens and Western?

[Erick Estrada]

Sucks to be making $55k with multiple kids going to college. Almost better off asking your employer for a pay cut below $50k in that situation.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I thought the "get of my law" was enough..

Oh it was. I know you were kidding. Just adding to it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

How Greecy of them, this will end well when they spend more on debt financing than the operating budget. I read somewhere that Ontario is the most indebted sub state in the world.

I think debt servicing is their most expensive government program.

I'm sure that the people in Ontario who have seen their utilities sky rocket and their taxes increase are going to love this. Especially the people with no kids, or the people that are making a bit more then that barrier, because they're the ones that are going to be subsidizing this.

Unless Wynn jacks up corporate tax rates more and chases more businesses out of their workers paradise.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Because this isn't necessarily true. Most tuition payments are relatively equal (for undergrads anyways). Not so much for their future potential earnings.

And putting the whole arts vs science degrees thing aside, a degree of some sort is pretty much expected now for any industry with any sort of upside. It's not so much as an advantage to have one as it is a disadvantage not to.

As for the second point about going to get degrees that don't have value...why? Why would anyone who has personal interests go against those just so they can get a fine arts degree or something. People who like science will do science, people who like arts will do arts. People who want money will go into the things that give them the greatest opportunity at it.

The problem is a degree shouldn't be expected for most jobs, by pumping thirty or forty percent of our population through university we have effectively devalued the Bachelors down to the level of grade twelve twenty years ago, I'm a youth worker, you used to, (and I did) enter the field with high school and taking the crappy shifts, weekends or overnights, you don't need a degree nor can a degree teach you how to handle a suicidal kid.
Today you need a BSw to earn 19 bucks an hour at best in a group home, it's a rip off, we have effectively forced kids to pay fourth of fifty thousand to get the equivalent of grade twelve.