[News] Bettman upholds 20 game Wideman suspension. NHLPA files appeal to neutral arbitrator

[mrkajz44]

I'd say the ruling comes down Monday morning - reasonable to think in a situation like this the decision could be crafted over the weekend. Monday morning result would still give Flames some chance to move him at the deadline, though I think its extremely unlikely.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Gary took close to a week to craft his decision. Now, he probably took his time because (a) it makes things suck more for Wideman/Flames, and (b) he wanted to "bulletproof" his case because he knew it would be taken to an arbitrator. But regardless of any of Gary's extra delays, it still takes time to consider a decision.

Do we expect an arbitrator to make a decision in 24 hours? Even 48 hours? I have to assume that the arbitrator is expected to go into this "blind" -- not reviewing the evidence beforehand, and relying only on that which is presented at the hearings. I have a very hard time believing that he'll be willing to rule without taking at least a couple of days to digest all the evidence presented.

Prediction: ruling comes down late on Monday afternoon. At that point, it doesn't matter what the result is.

I'm fine with how long it took Bettman to render his decision. The league knew this one was likely going to an arbitrator so they needed to have everything in order as this would be the first one under the new CBA and would set a precedent for every case in the future. Really it took three days (announced on the fourth) for the league to rule which isn't too bad in my opinion. What I don't understand is the time lag in the arbitrator hearing the case, and for that matter why they even need to hear anything at all. Why are they simply not just given all the evidence presented to date to review. If they ave further questions they could always ask. Correct me if I am wrong but when someone appeals a legal decision the appeals judge reviews the case facts and makes their ruling based on that, they don't have another trial. Why can't it work that way in this case?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Gary took close to a week to craft his decision. Now, he probably took his time because (a) it makes things suck more for Wideman/Flames, and (b) he wanted to "bulletproof" his case because he knew it would be taken to an arbitrator. But regardless of any of Gary's extra delays, it still takes time to consider a decision.

Do we expect an arbitrator to make a decision in 24 hours? Even 48 hours? I have to assume that the arbitrator is expected to go into this "blind" -- not reviewing the evidence beforehand, and relying only on that which is presented at the hearings. I have a very hard time believing that he'll be willing to rule without taking at least a couple of days to digest all the evidence presented.

Prediction: ruling comes down late on Monday afternoon. At that point, it doesn't matter what the result is.

An independent arbitrator just has to deliver his ruling, if it can't be appealed. Can this ruling be appealed?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I'd say the ruling comes down Monday morning - reasonable to think in a situation like this the decision could be crafted over the weekend. Monday morning result would still give Flames some chance to move him at the deadline, though I think its extremely unlikely.

I really hope that Wideman doesn't get shopped this deadline. I think his value is very low right now.

Wideman having an average year for Wideman at the deadline could garner something good. I would bet on him rebounding next season, and his contract would be more attractive and easier to move without the extra year.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MattyC

It seems to me that most of these issues could be solved by not taking 100 years to make a decision on something that should only take a few hours, maybe a day, at most.

This case is more complicated than most. And it is basically a legal battle in everything but name. Especially from the NHL's perspective. While I agree Bettman should have had his decision rendered sooner, you can be damn certain that his decision and the wording of it were probed by the NHL's lawyers. Not just to keep it defensible in front of an arbitrator, but also due to its potential relevance in the concussion lawsuits. That is going to take some time.

The union's interest is no less important, and they are ensuring their due dilligence is completed properly as well. To be perfectly blunt, I doubt either side is really focused on Wideman as an individual at this point. He's just the guinea pig for a larger legal tug of war, and the precedents that will be set going forward.

[Knut]

So will have missed 14 games if the ruling comes out on Monday (with a game that night at 5pm). So at best the arbitrator will reduce it to 15 and that is his last missed game.

That would be useful info on Trade Deadline day for any team wanting to acquire him.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

An independent arbitrator just has to deliver his ruling, if it can't be appealed. Can this ruling be appealed?

No, it can't be appealed. But it still has to be a good, justifiable decision based on careful reasoning. The process of writing a judgement is integral to ensuring that everything has been carefully considered.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Wideman may not be worth $5MM per season, but he is CERTAINLY not worth a 7th round draft pick. Let's just pump the brakes a bit here.

agreed lol

If they could drop the contract they would, 7th would be a bonus

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

No, it can't be appealed. But it still has to be a good, justifiable decision based on careful reasoning. The process of writing a judgement is integral to ensuring that everything has been carefully considered.

Yes, but it doesn't face the same scrutiny as Bettman's decision. Bettman had to consider how the league handles the concussion portion. The league also had to consider the ref union and their upcoming CBA. The arbitrator just has to consider similar incidents and how those incidents were dealt with in order to find a fair and similar consequence.

Based on Muzzin and Weber incidents, it wouldn't surprise me if Wideman is ruled to have no games suspended. The problem is that the league'a disciplinary rulings are so inconsistent as to who gets punished and they come with varying degrees of punishments. This is a cake walk for the arbitrator when looking at similar events.

For example, the next guy who uses throat killing gestures on the ice should appeal because Kadri just got slapped with a fine. In Wideman's case, at least two identical situations went unpunished. The arbitrator looks more at this, not "legal consequences" as it affects concussions. The arbitrator is in no position to be legally vulnerable if players are getting concussed? It's not his league?

[nik-]

I really do admire the "drag your feet until the suspension period has elapsed anyway" method here.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by nik-

I really do admire the "drag your feet until the suspension period has elapsed anyway" method here.

My question is:

What if the independent arbitrator sides with the concussion experts and determines that Wideman should never have been suspended at all?

He'll missed out on 20 games of pay. He didnt play for the Flames so they arent likely paying him. Does the league have to cough up the half mill for backpay?

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Yes, but it doesn't face the same scrutiny as Bettman's decision....

I don't personally think Bettman was at all worried about "carefully considering" his decision. I think he was only concerned with getting to the result he wanted, and wrapping justification around it to protect himself and the league as much as possible. He took a lot of time, in part, because he knew how much scrutiny his decision would face.

On the other hand, I think an independent arbitrator -- one who takes pride in being fair-minded and neutral -- will still need time to come to a fair decision. NOT because he's worried about the decision being scrutinized, but because it's his duty to do so.

Different reasons...but the same result. It takes time to get it right. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how long this takes.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Locke

My question is:

What if the independent arbitrator sides with the concussion experts and determines that Wideman should never have been suspended at all?

He'll missed out on 20 games of pay. He didnt play for the Flames so they arent likely paying him. Does the league have to cough up the half mill for backpay?

Well, the money was paid by the Flames to a league fund, so the fund would presumably return it to Wideman. The Flames then sue the NHL, claiming 20 games without their top offensive defenseman cost them playoff revenue. Hilarity ensues.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by locke

my question is:

What if the independent arbitrator sides with the concussion experts and determines that wideman should never have been suspended at all?

He'll missed out on 20 games of pay. He didnt play for the flames so they arent likely paying him. Does the league have to cough up the half mill for backpay?

dp.

[dino7c]

Just to clarify the Flames have paid Wideman's salary to the players association emergency fund...so obviously they would return it

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Just to clarify the Flames have paid Wideman's salary to the players association emergency fund...so obviously they would return it

I think Locke is asking who compensates the Flames for the $540k spent for nothing...

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I think Locke is asking who compensates the Flames for the $540k spent for nothing...

I know but it was suggested that the Flames have payed the salary into a LEAGUE fund. Just saying they paid it to the Players Association who would be happy to give it back to the player.

[GioforPM]

Flames compensation should be an extra ball in the lottery.

Seriously, this makes it pretty hard for the arbitrator and puts pressure on him to find in favour of the league (being the path of least resistance).

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The Flames then sue the NHL, claiming 20 games without their top offensive defenseman cost them playoff revenue.

I can't find words that express how unlikely I find this.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

I can't find words that express how unlikely I find this.

Fine, but my point was, and Vlad figured it out:

If the independent arbitrator finds in Wideman's favour and No Suspension was warrented:

- The Flames put Wideman's salary into a PA fund
- The PA refund that money to Wideman
- The Flames were still without a player for (assume) 20 games
- The Flames never got that player's contribution but still paid $540K for it

I assume the League, who would be the guilty party in the erroneous suspension would have to at the least refund the Flames for Wideman's salary.

But further to that Wideman's lack of participation will have affected the Flames, albeit perhaps not a playoff position but then perhaps a draft position.

What compensation do they get for that?