QOTD: Russell's Value

[TheScorpion]

I'm going to say a 1st and a 5th.

[ricardodw]

The last time the Blues won a playoffs series (1 year before Bouwmeester) both Polak and Russell were top 4 d-men in the playoff series. polak with 20:41 and Russel with 18:45

The next regular season Polak was down to #5 with 18:25 playing all the games and Russell was down to 16 minutes share games with Redden and Leopold. Polak was back to top 4 with 20 minutes in St.L playoff series and Russell was a healthy scratch.

Russell then was traded to the Flames for a 5th round pick and Polak stayed withe the blues as a 17 minute #4/5 d-man.

Polak was traded to the leafs where he played 21 minutes /game for the last year and a bit on a team that was a disaster.

Russell has been the #4 D-man on a lottery team for 2 out of his 3 years as a Flame.

He had a 30 game stretch where he was outstanding.

so what it looks like is that except for the 30 game stretch Polak would be a better d-man as judged by the coaches putting the players out on the ice.


Did the leafs break Polak?

Will Russell be anywhere as good playing outside of Hartley's run and gun style? What is the chance of Russell playing up to the 30 game stretch without Wideman as his partner and not being counted on as the #1 pairing?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I feel like the Russell trade is going to shape up more like a hockey trade. Helping bring in a piece like Nichushkin or someone of that ilk.

Russell would be the throw in to bring in a piece like Nichushkin.

[Tinordi]

Is it possible Polak is a more desirable playoff piece than Russell?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Is it possible Polak is a more desirable playoff piece than Russell?

Russell is valuable in the playoff if the team he is on is playing against the Canucks.

Playing against the Duck's Russell was a -8 in the 5 games... Could have changed his name to red-light Russell.

Engelland was -2 in the 5 games against the Ducks. He was -2 in the 6-1 blow out where Gaudreau sat the 3rd period and after that he was even +/-

For playoff games against all the teams with a chance to win a series Polak and Engelland would be more desirable pieces.


The work needed in the corners and in front of the net is just so much more important in the playoffs.

[Enoch Root]

voted hockey trade, but as for value, I would say something like a 2nd and a 3rd, or 2 2nds.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Russell is valuable in the playoff if the team he is on is playing against the Canucks.

Playing against the Duck's Russell was a -8 in the 5 games... Could have changed his name to red-light Russell.

The entire team was horrible against the Ducks. In fact, the Flames have been bad against the Ducks for over a decade. So you could just as easily say, ‘Russell is valuable in the playoffs if the team he is on is not playing against the Ducks.’

When you have only two data points, you cannot simply say that one represents the trend and dismiss the other one as the outlier. In fact, you can't talk about a trend at all from only two data points.

[GranteedEV]

Actual Value: a 3rd
Ideal Value: Drouin + 1st + 2nd + 3rd

[Monahan For Mayor]

A decent, wouldn't say "top" prospect and a lower pick.

[ScorchyScorch]

2nd + good prospect

Or a late 1st from a contender that will for sure pick in the bottom 5-7

There are so many potential buyers this season, it just makes sense.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Actual Value: a 3rd

Sorry but Glencross is not worth over twice as much as Russell in a trade. I'd be shocked if Russell fetched less than he did at the deadline.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Sorry but Glencross is not worth over twice as much as Russell in a trade. I'd be shocked if Russell fetched less than he did at the deadline.

Glencross did not get actual value. He got "Hahaha.. SUCKER" value.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Glencross did not get actual value. He got "Hahaha.. SUCKER" value.

WSH overpaid to get him. The trade deadline and July 1st are both about overpayments. Someone will overpay for Russell according to your valuation of him.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

WSH overpaid to get him. The trade deadline and July 1st are both about overpayments. Someone will overpay for Russell according to your valuation of him.

Overpayments are not value. They're... overpayments.


I'm aware that it's likely that the bidding war means there is an overpayment for Russell. I'm excited about that.

But any team that gives up more than a 3rd will be looking at this trade on draft day and telling themselves "what a poor trade".

Hence, his actual value vs his ideal value.

[Flash Walken]

Russell might get you a 1st based on the market currently.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Overpayments are not value. They're... overpayments.


I'm aware that it's likely that the bidding war means there is an overpayment for Russell. I'm excited about that.

But any team that gives up more than a 3rd will be looking at this trade on draft day and telling themselves "what a poor trade".

Hence, his actual value vs his ideal value.

Yes, because an NHL defenseman, with 500+ games to his name, and widely expected to get something near $5M in the summer, is worth a 3rd. Simply because you don't like him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Overpayments are not value. They're... overpayments.

I'm aware that it's likely that the bidding war means there is an overpayment for Russell. I'm excited about that.

But any team that gives up more than a 3rd will be looking at this trade on draft day and telling themselves "what a poor trade".

Hence, his actual value vs his ideal value.

His actual "value" right now is whatever a team will pay to acquire him. Not some made up value that you think he's worth cause you don't like his game.

Teams aren't going to regret losing a 3rd if Russell helps them go far in the playoffs, that's just silly.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

But any team that gives up more than a 3rd will be looking at this trade on draft day and telling themselves "what a poor trade".

Hence, his actual value vs his ideal value.

Most generic reply ever.

That what any buyer at any deadline says if they don't win the cup.

[Yamer]

Not knocking it, but these polls are so tough because I always feel it falls just outside of a category or two.

I'm thinking that Russell, at best, is worth a late 1st rounder and a B prospect. However, I think he's probably worth a mid to late 2nd and either a B prospect, additional 2nd rounder, or an early to mid 3rd.

Despite the hype, I don't expect Russell to receive a quality return.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yes, because an NHL defenseman, with 500+ games to his name, and widely expected to get something near $5M in the summer, is worth a 3rd. Simply because you don't like him.

...Except I do like him? Have I ever said I don't like him?

Just because I'm realistic about his role / ability level doesn't mean I don't like him.