[Trade] Markus Granlund to Van for Shinkaruk

[heep223]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Man, this trade made the Flames smaller. How does this even make the team better? WTF? It's almost like the trade is done just for the fact that trading deadline is looming. Whatever - c'mon Brad, make this team bigger and better, not stay status quo.

What! Dude Granlund is small too. Shinkaruk at least has high offensive upside.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Granlund has proven he can take a regular shift in the NHL. Shinkaruk hasn't. That's your higher floor.

Yeah but next season would he be taking a regular shift with the Flames? I tend to feel that the Flames decided he wasn't so even if Shinkaruk is a bust I feel it's a wash as Granlund likely would have found himself on waivers or traded for a late round pick regardless.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by New Era

to be a successful third liner, especially in the middle, you need to be strong in the dot and play with at least a little bit of gumption.

This has always seemed like the weirdest thing. Why should it matter to your play style whether you're on a 2nd or third line? Everyone's playing the same game on the same surface with the same objective. If you can contribute to outscoring the opposition given the players who you end up facing, there's no requirement to be a particular "type" of player. There's no reason a 3rd or 4th liner should have to be any kind of a grinder.

This is such a soft spot in the market where teams could really set themselves apart by getting more scoring out of their depth players.

[saillias]

^Sure and yet the Flames have sometimes gone with a soft, skilled 3rd/4th line lately. Some sort of Raymond-Granlund-Colborne combo at times. And they were utterly ineffective, and get hemmed in their zone by other team's 4th lines.

[polak]

Yeah I think people saying Granlund has "proven" anything in the NHL are jumping the gun. He's completely ineffective and a non-factor when he does play and probably wouldn't have a spot if we weren't one of the worst teams in the league.

We basically traded for a second chance at developing an impact player.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

This has always seemed like the weirdest thing. Why should it matter to your play style whether you're on a 2nd or third line? Everyone's playing the same game on the same surface with the same objective. If you can contribute to outscoring the opposition given the players who you end up facing, there's no requirement to be a particular "type" of player. There's no reason a 3rd or 4th liner should have to be any kind of a grinder.

This is such a soft spot in the market where teams could really set themselves apart by getting more scoring out of their depth players.

See success of Anaheim and Los Angeles versus the success of Calgary. Your wife may be telling you otherwise, but size does matter. The Flames get physically dominated because they are too small and too soft. Flames need some guys in the lineup that are tough to play against and wear the opposition down. Granlund didn't play that way so he's moved. Your fancy stats only tell 1/10th of the story of a hockey game.

[Phil Russell]

Good asset management. I am happy with how the Flames developed Granlund. They gave him a good shot at finding a place on the team and they developed him into an NHL player. When it was clear that he really did not have a place on the team, management converted the asset into something potentially promising. The asset lives.

[Reggie Dunlop]

From the files of a former Calgary Sun photographer. Not sure if this has been posted yet.

[ComixZone]

Watching Shinkaruk's highlights...if he develops as hoped, his play style makes it look like he could have a pro game similar to Cammalleri.

...if his development goes well.

[Muffins]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Watching Shinkaruk's highlights...if he develops as hoped, his play style makes it look like he could have a pro game similar to Cammalleri.

...if his development goes well.

That's what I thought as well when seeing his highlights. I would be happy with Squid 2.0

[Weitz]

I like the trade because it goes to show in generalities how fans view their guys. No one liked Shinkaruk after he was a canuck but now he is getting a fair shot!

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by New Era

See success of Anaheim and Los Angeles versus the success of Calgary. Your wife may be telling you otherwise, but size does matter. The Flames get physically dominated because they are too small and too soft. Flames need some guys in the lineup that are tough to play against and wear the opposition down. Granlund didn't play that way so he's moved. Your fancy stats only tell 1/10th of the story of a hockey game.

I didn't read any stats in that post?

[Red Menace]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Last summer, we collectively voted Granlund 8th on the prospect depth charts (and notably, Poirier 2nd):

Bennett
Poirier
Gillies
Ferland
Ortio
Jankowski
Hickey
Granlund
Klimchuk
Kylington

Where would Shinkaruk slot in at this point, with Bennett and Ferland having graduated? I think we have Gillies at the top, and then 2 groups of players: 3 defensemen that have separated themselves, and I would argue 3 forwards that are above the others:

Kylington, Andersson, Hickey

and

Poirier, Jankowski and Shinkaruk

in whatever order you like each group. I might order them as follows:

Gillies
Kylington
Andersson
Poirier
Shinkaruk
Hickey
Jankowski
Wotherspoon
Klimchuk
Magiapane
McDonald
Ortio

But regardless of what order you like, I think most would agree that Shinkaruk would be among the top 3 forwards on the list, or top 4 if you think Mangiapane is in that mix at this point.

I would rank the Forwards:
Shinkaruk, Poirier, Jankowski, Mangiapane, Klimchuk
DEF:
Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Kulak, Ollas-Mattsson
G:
Gillies, Ortio, McDonald

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I like the trade because it goes to show in generalities how fans view their guys. No one liked Shinkaruk after he was a canuck but now he is getting a fair shot!

The Weitz post generator.

[Geeoff]

One thing that tempers my excitement is the fact the Canucks have been actively trying to trade Shinkaruk for a year. As an aside, it's a bit of a dick move for Benning to publicly announce that they've been shopping him all this time and to take shots at his skill set on the way out the door.

[Weitz]

^^ Taking after the bruins I see.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

The Weitz post generator.

You disagree?

Fans don't value guys until they are their own. Happens in every sport in every league.

I think this was a great trade for the flames.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I would rank the Forwards:
Shinkaruk, Poirier, Jankowski, Mangiapane, Klimchuk
DEF:
Kylington, Hickey, Andersson, Kulak, Ollas-Mattsson
G:
Gillies, Ortio, McDonald

Agreed. Until we draft Laine or Puljujarvi, as it stands Shinkaruk is now our best forward prospect

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I like the trade because it goes to show in generalities how fans view their guys. No one liked Shinkaruk after he was a canuck but now he is getting a fair shot!

There were a fair number of people that felt all along that we should have taken him.

I did find it a little sad though to read the old threads and see some adults (presumably) on a message board insulting a teenager that they didn't have any real first-hand information on.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I didn't read any stats in that post?

He referenced "out scoring" which is one of those fancy stat terms. Being square for +/- doesn't make you a contributing member of the hockey club. There is more to the game, especially for a bottom six player, than just not getting scored on. Fact of the matter was that Granlund wasn't very affective in the role he was given and wasn't contributing to wins. That is the only stat, fancy or not, that matters. I really wanted Granlund to get a shot on a scoring line, on the wing, but that wasn't going to happen. Glad he will get a shot elsewhere and we grabbed a prospect with some potential to address a need.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There were a fair number of people that felt all along that we should have taken him.

I did find it a little sad though to read the old threads and see some adults (presumably) on a message board insulting a teenager that they didn't have any real first-hand information on.

Should teenagers be beyond criticism or something?