Actually how bad is Hiller?

[Hackey]

Hopefully bad enough to get us a top 3 pick.

[Samonadreau]

Moral of the story is Hiller isnt very good.... and the last thing we should do is acquire Jonathan Bernier aka Hiller 2.0

[GullFoss]

Does anyone else think its crazy that out of their 3 goaltenders, they waived Ramo? Not that Ramo is anything more than average, but that Hiller and Ortio are so much less than average...

Makes you wonder about the flames scouts ability to assess goaltending talent...



I actually think our best bet for goaltending is to target whichever Stars goalie might be available. That team has 10.4m locked up between Niemi and Lehtonen. Both goalies have 2 years left - so its not an unberable term if the goaltending doesn't work out. And the cap hits are digestable. And then I'd bring back Ramo - he'll probably cost about the same. It's not ideal...but the at least its a flexible amount of term.

[MarkGio]

It's so obvious that he's really bad it really makes you question what's going on behind the scenes. I mean, nobody has to be a professional coach to see how obvious it is. There's only a few possibilities that come to mind:

1) Management is asking Hartley to put Hiller in net
-- Trying to increase his trade value
-- Deliberately tanking
-- Hard to explain/justify benching the salary?

2) Hartley is purposely putting Hiller in net
-- Has an unreasonable distaste for Ortio
-- Has an obsession/attachment to Hiller (ie, God parent to his kid or something)
-- Hartley is incompetent

It's this kind of stuff that displays the inconsistency and misrepresentation of the phrase "Always earned, never given". Again, it is so obvious Hiller is not fit to tend the crease at any time.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It's so obvious that he's really bad it really makes you question what's going on behind the scenes. I mean, nobody has to be a professional coach to see how obvious it is. There's only a few possibilities that come to mind:

1) Management is asking Hartley to put Hiller in net
-- Trying to increase his trade value
-- Deliberately tanking
-- Hard to explain/justify benching the salary?

2) Hartley is purposely putting Hiller in net
-- Has an unreasonable distaste for Ortio
-- Has an obsession/attachment to Hiller (ie, God parent to his kid or something)
-- Hartley is incompetent

It's this kind of stuff that displays the inconsistency and misrepresentation of the phrase "Always earned, never given". Again, it is so obvious Hiller is not fit to tend the crease at any time.

Ortio hasn't earned anything either. Right now Hartley has to pick between dog #### and horse ####. Both are no good. One is a slightly bigger pile because they can't even hack it in the AHL. We all need to start pointing fingers at BT his trades haven't been very good. As I mentioned in another thread we havent managed to develop a goalie in house since Vernon. It's time to get some new goaltending scouts/ development team cause outside of fluking out with Kipper which was Sutter and not our scouts doing, there hasn't been anything of note in 20 years.

[Gaudfather]

There were stories that Ortio did refuse a request earlier in the year to go down to the AHL on a conditioning stint. He eventually had to go down when he was put on waivers and not claimed. Through these earlier actions he may have put himself in the coaches penalty box and it takes some time to come out.

[hockey.modern]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Does anyone else think its crazy that out of their 3 goaltenders, they waived Ramo? Not that Ramo is anything more than average, but that Hiller and Ortio are so much less than average...

Makes you wonder about the flames scouts ability to assess goaltending.

What does performing very poor have to do with flames scouting goaltending? Ramo was dreadful at the start at the season and was even worse than Hiller. Then when Hiller went down, Ramo took advantage of the situation and stepped up to be the #1 goalie this year.

[Mister Yamoto]

I want two new goalies next season. Time to turn the page on all three.

Ramo had a good December. Good for him. Maybe he and his agent can turn that into yet another NHL contract that his skills and his resume do not justify. Somewhere else.

Hiller is the best of the three. Solid last season and a proven NHLer. But it's not gonna happen here. The most embarrassing season a Flames starter has had since Grant Fuhr.

Ortio isn't going to want another season on the Flames farm team and likely hasn't even shown enough to get that. He's young and could still make it but it will have to be somewhere else. Do not qualify.

Treliving has to get it right this summer. I don't care if it's Howard, Niemi, Bernier, Murray or Freddie Braithwaite. It has to be better next year. Trelivings' job should depend on it.

[locsofblu]

He is the worst goalie in flames history as well. Just garbage.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Ortio hasn't earned anything either. Right now Hartley has to pick between dog #### and horse ####. Both are no good. One is a slightly bigger pile because they can't even hack it in the AHL. We all need to start pointing fingers at BT his trades haven't been very good. As I mentioned in another thread we havent managed to develop a goalie in house since Vernon. It's time to get some new goaltending scouts/ development team cause outside of fluking out with Kipper which was Sutter and not our scouts doing, there hasn't been anything of note in 20 years.

I don't think anyone is saying Ortio deserves it or has earned anything. But Hiller has been a bag of trash all year and people are sick of seeing it.

[bubbsy]

Terrible goalie. Playing behind a terrible defensive team/defence.

No shock flames are against the not Tom as far as ga and pk.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The team was expected to finish last overall and needed some NHL players to fill out the roster

team doesn't make the playoffs last year without Hiller/Engelland

The problem wasn't with adding guys. It was adding guys with term. As much as it pains me to say it - the Leafs are doing this right. Adding a bunch of guys on one year contracts and then cycling them out at trade deadline. The Flames were stuck with a bunch of unmovable contracts because these guys all got 2 or 3 years.

[Hackey]

I think that's easy to say now. Who knew Johnny would need a 7-8 million dollar re-up so fast? Who knew we would land Dougie Hamilton? Hiller was signed for 2 years and we needed some tending. I don't really have a huge issue with that signing. Engelland I don't like as much but at the time I didn't think it was a bad signing because 3 years wasn't a huge amount of time and we needed some size, toughness, and character. I wish it was a 2 year deal but unfortunately it's 3. Again not the end of the world. It's easy to point at them now but at the time we needed to address those areas and 2-3 year contracts seemed very reasonable. Especially with the abundance of cap space we had at the time. Worst case scenario they are both gone next year. We have contracts way more terrible than those two by far.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I think that's easy to say now. Who knew Johnny would need a 7-8 million dollar re-up so fast? Who knew we would land Dougie Hamilton? Hiller was signed for 2 years and we needed some tending. I don't really have a huge issue with that signing. Engelland I don't like as much but at the time I didn't think it was a bad signing because 3 years wasn't a huge amount of time and we needed some size, toughness, and character. I wish it was a 2 year deal but unfortunately it's 3. Again not the end of the world. It's easy to point at them now but at the time we needed to address those areas and 2-3 year contracts seemed very reasonable. Especially with the abundance of cap space we had at the time. Worst case scenario they are both gone next year. We have contracts way more terrible than those two by far.

They were all questioned at the time. Its not some wild revisionist history to say the Engelland/Raymond contracts didn't seem odd at the time.

Instead of signing Mason Raymond for three years, you could have signed random veteran X (say Daniel Winnick) for 1 year and then dealt him and got a draft pick or kept him for the playoff run, then picked up random veteran Y for 1 year and then traded him this year for a draft pick.

[Heavy Jack]

He's so bad that when he's in net and you throw money down on the over for goals against being 4 you will win like 9 out of 10 times.

[killer_carlson]

Hiller is playing everything like a goalie who is worried his next goal against could spell the end of his career. He is nervous and fighting the puck. His confidence is right down the crapper.

[Heavy Jack]

That give away last night with 2 minutes left should be the last straw. Put Ortio in win or lose down the stretch over a guy who has absolutely no future with this team, or the NHL for that matter, past this season.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

How bad was that offseason? Hiller, Raymond, Engelland. BT would have been better off having a team building bondfire with the 10+ million a year he spent that offseason.

If he doesn't sign those three, guarantee we don't make the playoffs.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It's so obvious that he's really bad it really makes you question what's going on behind the scenes. I mean, nobody has to be a professional coach to see how obvious it is. There's only a few possibilities that come to mind:

1) Management is asking Hartley to put Hiller in net
-- Trying to increase his trade value
-- Deliberately tanking
-- Hard to explain/justify benching the salary?

2) Hartley is purposely putting Hiller in net
-- Has an unreasonable distaste for Ortio
-- Has an obsession/attachment to Hiller (ie, God parent to his kid or something)
-- Hartley is incompetent

It's this kind of stuff that displays the inconsistency and misrepresentation of the phrase "Always earned, never given". Again, it is so obvious Hiller is not fit to tend the crease at any time.

OR!!!!!!!!

Jonas Hiller has 400+ NHL games under his belt. If Joni Ortio still can't make a compelling case in practice for him to be put in net, that's not Bob Hartley's fault. It's on Ortio.

This is Irving all over again. No reason Ortio shouldn't be grabbing this opportunity like a 13 year old discovering alone time. That he isn't tells us a lot about Joni.

This can't continue for 25 more games, so I hope we get Murray

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by locsofblu

He is the worst goalie in flames history as well. Just garbage.

I wouldn't go that far. He's been horrible this year but even if he could have matched his play from last year the Flames would still be in the playoff hunt.