26 games to go and there's nothing to see here

[polak]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If Colborne was better and didn't make mistakes, he wouldn't be a bottom 6 guy and he wouldn't be making 1.25

He is what he is, he provides scoring for the third line and he's good at shoot outs. Keep him.

Really, you think Colborne has a place on a contending team, even in the bottom 6? MAYBE if he used his size and was more fiesty.

He's a big player who plays small. He's an "energy role" guy who doesn't bring any energy or speed. He's supposed to be a bottom 6, defensively responsible player but he makes terrible choices with the puck every game.

He's not NHL calibre in my opinion. He's like a slow, big version of Raymond with better hands in situations where is left all alone.

[Erick Estrada]

Polak, now you have made your opinion abundantly clear on this can we move on?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Polak now we have your opinion can we move on?

.................................................. ................................... Now you can move on.

[Cube Inmate]

They always pretend that there's some "firewall" or something between management and coaching. Brad manages the roster; Bob just does the best with what he's given. But you're absolutely right -- BT needs to be telling Bob that his job is no longer about making the playoffs this year. His job is to help figure out next year's roster by getting an early start on training camp.

I hope that's happening, but they continue to give lip service to the idea of holding on to their playoff hopes. It's unwatchable.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by polak

Really, you think Colborne has a place on a contending team, even in the bottom 6? MAYBE if he used his size and was more fiesty.

He's a big player who plays small. He's an "energy role" guy who doesn't bring any energy or speed. He's supposed to be a bottom 6, defensively responsible player but he makes terrible choices with the puck every game.

He's not NHL calibre in my opinion. He's like a slow, big version of Raymond with better hands in situations where is left all alone.

I think he's only valuable in a bottom 6 role. THe guy has some talent and he has some size. He isn't the big hit kind of guy and he isn't the flashy forward kind of guy. If he was better, he'd be better. He's not but he's still decent at putting up some points and doing his job. There are a lot of other guys on the team I'd get rid of before him.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

They always pretend that there's some "firewall" or something between management and coaching. Brad manages the roster; Bob just does the best with what he's given. But you're absolutely right -- BT needs to be telling Bob that his job is no longer about making the playoffs this year. His job is to help figure out next year's roster by getting an early start on training camp.

I hope that's happening, but they continue to give lip service to the idea of holding on to their playoff hopes. It's unwatchable.

The coach and GM are in constant communication. There's a tight rope in that you have season ticket holders that have paid top dollar for a good product and you just can't throw an AHL team on the ice with 1/4 of the season left to go. I'm sure after the deadline some AHL players will be brought up out of necessity to fill roster spots voided by trades. Similar to a few years back after the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades. Hartley knows the big picture as well but he's not going to bench veteran players for inferior call-ups until likely the last few weeks of the season.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's a tight rope in that you have season ticket holders that have paid top dollar for a good product and you just can't throw an AHL team on the ice with 1/4 of the season left to go.

I see your point. Some customers (although I can't say what percentage) would certainly prefer to see experimentation at this point regardless of the results, but others undoubtedly want to see the "best" lineup out there and a win on the ice (me too, against EDM at least).

However, I would also argue that at this point, Bollig, Jones, Jooris, Stajan, Engelland, Smid, Bouma, and Colborne are all no better than their potential AHL replacements in terms of creating wins. They might, on paper, be better or "more proven" players than said replacements, but I'd have as much confidence in a win with or without any/all of them. Call-ups bring some energy, which is seriously lacking from top to bottom right now.

And in goal... let's just never see Hiller again.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The coach and GM are in constant communication. There's a tight rope in that you have season ticket holders that have paid top dollar for a good product and you just can't throw an AHL team on the ice with 1/4 of the season left to go. I'm sure after the deadline some AHL players will be brought up out of necessity to fill roster spots voided by trades. Similar to a few years back after the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades. Hartley knows the big picture as well but he's not going to bench veteran players for inferior call-ups until likely the last few weeks of the season.

I dunno, as a STH some of the best Flames hockey I'd watched since 2004 was the few months of the reg season after they traded Iggy away, and half the lineup was AHLers.

[mrkajz44]

I did notice Nakladal got some decent ice time last night, so I think the message from Brad to Bob has already been given. I would be very surprised (or maybe disappointed is a better word) if Ortio doesn't get the next few starts. He hasn't had back to back starts all year, and Hiller certainly hasn't proved anything in his last 3 starts.

[hurtin_albertan]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

This is what I would like to see happen for the remainder of the season:

- Put Bennett in the #1 RW spot with Gaudreau and Monahan.
- Sit Hiller and don't put him in regardless of the circumstances.
- Lock the top four D as Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton and Nakladal. Mix and match as needed, but leave those four together until the final whistle in April.

Right now, there are things we know, and things we don't know:

Know
- Hiller is done.
- We need a legit #1 RW as part of our (young) core. (We have C, LW and LD/RD already.)
- Russel is not a top-four D anymore.

Don't know
- Do we already have a #1 RW in Bennett? He's got the skill, desire and energy to be an impact player on the top line, and his idol (Gilmour) played C/RW. Can he do the same?
- Do we have a G in our system that is NHL ready?
- Is Nakladal a top-four NHL D?

So here's the deal. The season is done. Even if we get hot enough to miraculously make it in, we're not going anywhere special once we get there. Let's do the smart thing for once. Let's start inventorying our cupboards. Go with the young goalies in our system that are healthy enough to play. Put Bennett up front with the big two and let it play out. Commit to Nakladal in the top-four and see what happens.

Imagine going into the off-season and not having to wonder about if we need a #1RW, or a top-for D or a G that can backup Ramo next year. Imagine actually knowing the answers to these questions because we allowed the only players in our organization who are close enough to fill those roles try out for them over almost a quarter of a season.

"We think Nakladal can move into the top-four" vs "Nakladal is/isn't a top-four D"
"We're gonna try Sam out on the wing next year" vs "Bennett is/isn't(yet?) able to be a #1 RW"
"We have a couple options for the G position" vs "Player x can play in this league, and he'll challenge Ramo next year for #1 status" or "We need an NHL goalie next season. Period."

Possible outcomes
- Everything bombs and we finish close to last overall and pick top-three in the draft.
- We get some pretty good answers and finish near the bottom and pick top-six in the draft.
- Everything works incredibly and we go on a huge exciting run to finish out the season, and suddenly we're in very good shape for next year. Screw the Oilers and their tanking ways!

I imagine there are holes all throughout my ideas, but these are my thoughts at the moment, regardless.

Sorry for quoting a long-ish post.

I agree with absolutely everything you've said here. BUT. I think we should expect to be majorly disappointed as none of this experimenting will happen so long as Hartley is calling the shots and the playoffs are still a mathematical possibility.

- As soon as Russell is ready he'll go right back with Hamilton as the #3 guy and Nakladal will slide into the 5/6 spot. When Wideman comes back Nak may find his way back into the press box entirely.
- As long as Hiller is alive and breathing he will be the go to guy in net. Doesn't matter if he takes the proverbial ball and craps it into his own net mid-game, "Hills is our guy".
- Hudler will play #1 RW as long as he's a Flame, but even if he gets traded I doubt Bennett fills the spot. Who played there when Bob was looking for a change...Ferland and Colborne both had long looks...Jones as well. Didn't Raymond even take a stab? Regardless, I don't recall Bennett really being given a chance.

And you know what, I don't even know if I can fault Hartley for this line of thinking...his mandate is to make the playoffs. That's it. However he sees fit to accomplish that goal, it's obvious that he's been given full control of who fits where. Until the mandate from above changes from "make the playoffs" to "find out things x,y and z" (which for the record I believe should happen immediately) nothing will change. At least that's my guess.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by heep223

I dunno, as a STH some of the best Flames hockey I'd watched since 2004 was the few months of the reg season after they traded Iggy away, and half the lineup was AHLers.

I think a lot of that had to do with the burden of the whole Iginla leaving the team situation being finally lifted and subsequent change in leadership more than it had to do with the actual AHLers being added.

[Strange Brew]

There are several bad contracts on this team that I would like to see moved but in general, I believe those players have negative value and at best get you an equally bad contract in return. (Think Tanguay/Sarich for Jones/O'Brien). I would prefer to keep those guys and deal them at the deadline of their expiring year when their value will be at the highest. So Wideman, Engelland, Smid would all be trade candidates next year. An extra year of those players doesn't hurt us, since this team isn't going anywhere next season anyway.

Raymond won't get you anything even at next years deadline, so maybe you buy him out. Or keep him in the AHL.

I like Colborne as a bottom 6 player making $1.5 million. Just no multi year deal please. He is very replaceable.

I know slightly off topic but the Coloborne/Frolik talk has me thinking. We added $10 million in salary with our two big offseason moves, Frolik and Hamilton. Those guys have not delivered at that level. In a season of disappointments, that has to be high on the list.

[codynw]

I just want Bennett played at center for the rest of the season.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There are several bad contracts on this team that I would like to see moved but in general, I believe those players have negative value and at best get you an equally bad contract in return. (Think Tanguay/Sarich for Jones/O'Brien). I would prefer to keep those guys and deal them at the deadline of their expiring year when their value will be at the highest. So Wideman, Engelland, Smid would all be trade candidates next year. An extra year of those players doesn't hurt us, since this team isn't going anywhere next season anyway.

Raymond won't get you anything even at next years deadline, so maybe you buy him out. Or keep him in the AHL.

I like Colborne as a bottom 6 player making $1.5 million. Just no multi year deal please. He is very replaceable.

I know slightly off topic but the Coloborne/Frolik talk has me thinking. We added $10 million in salary with our two big offseason moves, Frolik and Hamilton. Those guys have not delivered at that level. In a season of disappointments, that has to be high on the list.

I am certainly not disappointed in either Frolik or Hamilton. You have some sky high expectations bub

[Southside]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

I did notice Nakladal got some decent ice time last night, so I think the message from Brad to Bob has already been given. I would be very surprised (or maybe disappointed is a better word) if Ortio doesn't get the next few starts. He hasn't had back to back starts all year, and Hiller certainly hasn't proved anything in his last 3 starts.

Nakladal only got more ice team out of necessity. Russel is down, Wideman is suspended and then Smid was injured in the 1st period and did not return. The Flames were forced to go with 5 defence. Bob had to play him, not that he necessarily wanted to.

[DuffMan]

I would trade Raymond and Hiller for a power play.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I would trade Raymond and Hiller for a power play.

I'd trade Hiller for a box of Swiss Cheese crackers the way he's played the last week.

[Poe969]

I"m happy Hiller will be in net for a while. Let's face it, the playoffs are a dream. Every loss brings the team closer to a higher draft pick and he gives us good odds every time he's in net.

[codynw]

I wouldn't trade Hiller for anything. He's the key to unlocking Auston Matthews.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

There are several bad contracts on this team that I would like to see moved but in general, I believe those players have negative value and at best get you an equally bad contract in return. (Think Tanguay/Sarich for Jones/O'Brien). I would prefer to keep those guys and deal them at the deadline of their expiring year when their value will be at the highest. So Wideman, Engelland, Smid would all be trade candidates next year. An extra year of those players doesn't hurt us, since this team isn't going anywhere next season anyway.

Raymond won't get you anything even at next years deadline, so maybe you buy him out. Or keep him in the AHL.

I like Colborne as a bottom 6 player making $1.5 million. Just no multi year deal please. He is very replaceable.

I know slightly off topic but the Coloborne/Frolik talk has me thinking. We added $10 million in salary with our two big offseason moves, Frolik and Hamilton. Those guys have not delivered at that level. In a season of disappointments, that has to be high on the list.

Wow, since his slow start Hamilton has been very good.

Frolik has been pretty much what has been advertised except for some very unfortunate injuries.

I'd say that they have come pretty close to living up to what was promised.

And there's going to certainly be some development time for a 22 year old defenseman like Hamilton.