[News] Bettman upholds 20 game Wideman suspension. NHLPA files appeal to neutral arbitrator

[Flamefan1]

Although the suspension is a bit excessive, it was the best thing that could have happened to the Flames defense. Hartley for some reason could not figure out that Wideman was the major problem with the Flames PP. All year he was always given the pp role although he never earned it because of his total lack of mobility, and speed. Now the pp is working well and Nakladahl is finally getting his tryout. Hamilton is far superior to Wideman on the pp. the only bad thing is Hartley will not learn his lesson and will put Wideman back on the pp instead of playing him 12 minutes or benching him.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Actually, it kinda does

To assume that anyone who's defending Wideman as a homer with an invalid opinion is absolutely ridiculous.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by browna

If Wideman hadn't sent that text, I think we'd be talking about the reduction.

The fact that he didn't look back to help the linesman up, combined with the fact that he's independently talking about the reason he thinks why he's getting investigated, both show no remorse. The on ice thing may slide by itself, but when combined with the comments after, no way the NHL would give benefit of the doubt, and since they already set it where they set it at 20 games (IMO to appease the refs), they can't come down as I am guessing even they thought would happen upon appeal....until the text message comes to light.

This will obviously set precedence for teams and players regarding their cellphones going forwards after any sort of on ice incident.

And yeah, even if Wideman wins the next process, he's close to missing 10 games anyways as Burke says, though I guess he'll get his money. But T99 is correct, this isn't about the Flames and Wideman, and its not even about Don Henderson. It's maybe not even about concussions, though that's part of it regarding the next fight the PA and the league will have; a fight that really is an early round battle regarding the push back from both sides in general regarding the next CBA. No side wants to lose this one.

I don't think that not looking back shows no remorse. In both the Weber and Muzzin cases they didn't look back at all.

[Cube Inmate]

Watching it over and over again, here's my take on "intent"

1) both skates turn the same way; that's evasion, not bracing for impact.
2) the "cross check" hits around the right shoulder blade. These players make a living out of cross checking the other guy in the lower back where there's little protection, not up near shoulders. If there were intent (even disoriented) he would have targeted the back.

I might be half joking, but I'm also right. And I also think 10 games for carelessness would have been fair, even though it was unintentional.

[Machiavelli]

So on what legal grounds can the NHL subpoena text messages? Could Wideman have refused?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

Although the suspension is a bit excessive, it was the best thing that could have happened to the Flames defense. Hartley for some reason could not figure out that Wideman was the major problem with the Flames PP. All year he was always given the pp role although he never earned it because of his total lack of mobility, and speed. Now the pp is working well and Nakladahl is finally getting his tryout. Hamilton is far superior to Wideman on the pp. the only bad thing is Hartley will not learn his lesson and will put Wideman back on the pp instead of playing him 12 minutes or benching him.

In all fairness to Wideman, before this season he was a legit PPQB for his entire career. It's only this season he's learned to suck. Can't say I blame Hartley for trying to get him back into form.

I agree though that Hamilton should be the guy we groom that role for.

[Finger Cookin]

Can the neutral arbitrator change the length of the suspension, either reducing it or lengthening it? Or does the arbitrator simply choose whether the league/Bettman was justified in the suspension, or the NHLPA was justified in the appeal and throw it out completely?

[You Need a Thneed]

I've always hated the "he doesn't show remorse" argument - for justice in general. Not showing remorse is also a sign of perceived innocence.

Of course Wideman isn't going to show remorse if he thinks it was a complete accident. (He's certainly shown enough remorse if that is the case).

That he doesn't show remorse is not evidence of either side of the argument.

Clearly, the text is evidence of a lack of remorse, but that proves nothing. Frankly, the NHL using that argument severely weakens their position. Wideman wasn't being tried on whether he made a text, and considering the time of the alleged text, it's completely irrelevant to this conversation. It has nothing to do with what happened, and its existence provides no evidence that makes a case for either side.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Which Wideman should I believe?

The one who vaguely remembers going to the bench and an incident happening but doesn't remember who or how he hit someone?

Or the Wideman who recalls the event and looked up last second and hit the linesman but apologized for it right after?

If I know one thing about concussion symptoms, it's that events can be distorted even if remembered. Honestly, nobody should be too hard on Wideman for changing his story since he likely barely remembers the incident himself.

Here's the part that bothers me. Bettman admits that Wideman has had a virtually spotless record, yet also says that he gives Wideman's testimony "no credit". Most of his explanation reads like a very biased judge making an example of a defendant in order to try and dissuade future similar activities. Not to mention how long it took to announce a decision that was obviously pretty clear to Bettman from the outset. He purposely made Wideman twist in the wind on this one...again to make an example.

I just honestly don't feel like Wideman is being treated entirely fairly during this process. And for the record, I agree that he deserved a lengthy suspension for his actions. Not sure I would have said 20, but I'd have been comfortable with 10-15.

This whole thing stinks.

[FlamesAddiction]

Those texts aren't a big deal. He wrote them to a specific audience so you have to keep them in context. I am sure the "stupid refs" are a big part of the reason why the league took the stance that they did.

We also don't know what else he said or texted people during that time. The media is only going to print the ones that sounds the most scandalous.

[Gaudfather]

Don't the officials hear a lot worse than "stupid refs" each night from both benches at any NHL game? Talk about your tempest in a teapot.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

To assume that anyone who's defending Wideman as a homer with an invalid opinion is absolutely ridiculous.

When officials are getting smashed on hits like the recent Muzzin, Weber, and Smith ones, its a huge accusation to say it's on purpose and throw the book.

It's also a mistake to let your officials finish games if they are concussed. Wideman didn't even get a penalty on the play.

If the NHL draws a line in the sand with this, it's laughable after some of their antics with Bertuzzi, Cooke, Torres, etc.

This is gonna get ugly.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

When officials are getting smashed on hits like the recent Muzzin, Weber, and Smith ones, its a huge accusation to say it's on purpose and throw the book.

It's also a mistake to let your officials finish games if they are concussed. Wideman didn't even get a penalty on the play.

If the NHL draws a line in the sand with this, it's laughable after some of their antics with Bertuzzi, Cooke, Torres, etc.

This is gonna get ugly.

I really don't think this "free for all against offficials" thing is a legitimate concern for the NHL and it makes me laugh a little bit inside when it's brought up by the league as a concern.

It is not, has not, and will never be open season on officials in the NHL.

[Teroy]

Been a Flames fan forever but there is no doubt in my mind that Wideman did it deliberately. Don't give me the bull about "watch his feet". Watch his arms; he definitely drives his arms and stick into the linesman. Quit defending someone who acted like a thug because he had a good record. He did it. He deserved the suspension and is lucky he didn't get more.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Teroy

Been a Flames fan forever but there is no doubt in my mind that Wideman did it deliberately. Don't give me the bull about "watch his feet". Watch his arms; he definitely drives his arms and stick into the linesman. Quit defending someone who acted like a thug because he had a good record. He did it. He deserved the suspension and is lucky he didn't get more.

Gary Bettman, is that you?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

So on what legal grounds can the NHL subpoena text messages? Could Wideman have refused?

Yeah I don't get this at all why they would ask and why he would cooperate. The incident happened on the ice so I don't see how his phone records should be relevant. This isn't like deflate gate where orchestrated shenanigans happened off the field.

IMO I believe there's not much doubt he did it on purpose. However I question his mental state after taking a big hit moments earlier. It is what it is now as they are almost half way through the suspension so the NHLPA appealing isn't going to accomplish much.

[sureLoss]

Wes Gilbertson @WesGilbertson
#Flames GM Brad Treliving on today's hot topic — that text message from Dennis Wideman to a teammate ...

[sun]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Actually, it kinda does

Nope.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

If I know one thing about concussion symptoms, it's that events can be distorted even if remembered.

We're not talking about distorted though.

This is the quote:

Dr. Kutcher testified that he based his opinion, in part, on the fact that Mr. Wideman told him
that he "vaguely remembers skating to the bench. He remembers some incident occurring, but
he does not recall who he hit [or] how he hit the individual. " (Tr. 203) In fact, however, at the
hearing, Mr. Wideman testified that he does recall colliding with the linesman and that he
became aware it was going to occur prior to contact being made. (Tr. 86)

Again, he told that story to the expert who was tasked with diagnosing him with or without a concussion. If you don't think Wideman was playing up his symptoms then you are lot more trusting of people than I ever would be. To me, I think Wideman knew what he had to say to get an easy concussion diagnosis. Talk about being confused, not remembering the incident, etc. and they'll give you a for sure concussion diagnosis. When asked why you said you weren't woozy, say it was a lie you were asked to tell etc. That interview was in direct contradiction to his own testimony and interviews where he said it was just an accident and didn't see the guy until last second.

I'm not commenting on the actual incident. Whether it was an accident, impulse control issues due to a concussion, a stupid hockey player exhibiting anger management issues, or an Oilers fan who developed mind control, I think that's beside my point. I think Wideman was dishonest in his interview with the expert. And it's not a stretch, considering he already admitted to lying about the woozy comment.

[PeteMoss]

I'm not a huge fan of Wideman or particularly care if he plays or not this year, but this mega delay to come up with a response just reeks of the NHL trying to make sure he serves a long suspension no matter what the arbitrator says.

Added that text message to his decision is even more ridiculous. What does whether or not he's remorseful have to do with anything. Its not a parole hearing. The rule doesn't says 20 games if you're not remorseful but 15 if you are.