McKenzie: Is there any doubt Russell would at least get 5 yrs x $5.5 million as UFA?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is the reality of the cap era... The #4 guy playing with any one of 3 guys that s/b norris candidates should be able to step in .... Wotherspoon, Kylington, Hickey or Andersen or Schlemko/Diaz.


Basically every playoff team has at least a #4 by toi that is making less than 2.2M.

Anaheim has 2 Lindholm and Vatanen

Dallas has Demers at 2.2M but highest guy is at 4.6

Chicago has van Riemsdyck @925k

Florida Ekblad 925k, Petrovic 1M

LA Mcnabb @ 650k and now Schenn @1.8

Wash Schmidt 825k

Boston went with Kevin Miller at 800k rather than Hamilton,


It is only the Flames that have 4-7 > 2M


Russell will not get 4M to be a #4 d-man on any team outside the Flames

It's a shame... I thought seeing Lee Stempniak playing this season would have caused a fatal error in your mainframe and we'd be spared from future deluded ramblings like this.

[GreenLantern2814]

Boy am I glad Hartley stopped feeding Russell those top 4 minutes. We sure are better off with Smid on the 2nd pair

[skudr248]

EDIT: Rumors in the Flames ####ters don't count

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It's a shame... I thought seeing Lee Stempniak playing this season would have caused a fatal error in your mainframe and we'd be spared from future deluded ramblings like this.

And yet you quoted it anyway

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Bingo

To me Russell has become my poster boy for my travels into analytics and where data and stats need to be in comparison to what you actually see.

We see what we see? But do we see it with biases? Stats are true, you can't debate that, but do they sometimes get over used because of sample size, or situation, or off years, fluke years. Do they cover everything?

Russell in Calgary is a beast and a great defenseman to many. He's a go to guy worth $5.5M to McKenzie. And he's one of the worst possession players in the game to analytics guys.

It's like the preseason when I got in a spat with a guy from Toronto about Calgary's goaltending. I said trade Hiller because Ramo is the better goaltending. He hammered me with stats as to why I was an idiot to which I replied the eye test doesn't support that. Again I was essentially called an idiot. In the end I think we can all agree that Ramo won out.

So with differing opinions on Russell I think you need to find that middle ground, less money, and a reasonable role going forward.

At the time though there's too much view about the guy being a complete warrior not to take advantage of his over hyped value and deal him. But part of me hopes he doesn't find the $5M pay day in the first 5 days of July and then resigns in Calgary for $3M per season.

If Russell gets $5.5M then I'll buy there's a big discrepancy, but I highly doubt that's going to happen.

The Flames have been awful on the PK and overall defensively. The Flames have a very good first pair. The other guys must not be doing well or else the Flames wouldn't be so bad.

[PeteMoss]

My take on Russell and the advanced stats - they are so bad you can't just ignore them. They are way beyond a normal range.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

the top 2 certainly have, Hamilton has been up and down...beyond that is where it has been iffy to say the least.

Offensively the Flames D is 2nd after a slow start and missing #7 for a month

Do you have the pts scored by defenseman by team rankings? link if possible

It would be interesting how the pts scored by d-men correlates to pts in the the standings.

[SportsJunky]

Speaking of Bob Mackenzie, he's on the Howard Stern wrap up show right now talking about the draft among other things. I had a weird moment of "what the hell is Bob Mackenzie doing on Stern?"

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Boy am I glad Hartley stopped feeding Russell those top 4 minutes. We sure are better off with Smid on the 2nd pair

Well with Wideman out of the lineup the options are limited. Smid is too slow to be playing more than bottom pairing.

[DJones]

Even if we don't resign Russell I have no problem with spending $4M on a #4. That's not the problem it's the 3 overpaid guys on the bottom pairing that is the problem.

Wouldn't have guessed that everyone is looking towards drafting a top D. I want high end forward skill with size.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Do you have the pts scored by defenseman by team rankings? link if possible

It would be interesting how the pts scored by d-men correlates to pts in the the standings.

I don't have them right in front of me...I know a couple games back they showed it on sportsnet and Calgary was #2 by a fair margin and closing in on #1

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Boy am I glad Hartley stopped feeding Russell those top 4 minutes. We sure are better off with Smid on the 2nd pair

I don't think anyone is saying Hartley should play Smid over Russell as a number 4. They are saying Russell isn't quite a number 4 quality defenceman orworth that kind of money.

Also, I may be in the minority, but I think Wideman is better than Russell. A tad smarter defensively (though perhaps not physically capable of all plays, especially those requiring foot speed), and has much better offence (shot getting through or not).

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I don't have them right in front of me...I know a couple games back they showed it on sportsnet and Calgary was #2 by a fair margin and closing in on #1

Pretty sure that is correct. Nashville is #1, I believe.

Different ways to construct a team, I suppose. No doubt the Flames are D heavy, cap-wise, but I don't think there will be a magic formula of how much to spend on F/D, other than by very broad strokes.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by heep223

Boston offered Hamilton $5M+

Is that true? Not denying or debating it, just wondering if verified.

Hamilton needs to be able to play up to his contract AAV next year for this team to have any reasonable chance of major improvement. I thought he would have had a bigger impact this year but I overestimated. If Russell goes, Hamilton's role becomes much bigger.

[Otto29]

Forgive me for my ignorance but why all the hate for Russell? He's a good defenceman who blocks a craptonne of shots. Some nights he has more saves than the goaltender so exactly why the hate. I doubt many of you can even explain your hate for this player.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by Otto29

Forgive me for my ignorance but why all the hate for Russell? He's a good defenceman who blocks a craptonne of shots. Some nights he has more saves than the goaltender so exactly why the hate. I doubt many of you can even explain your hate for this player.

I imagine a lot of it is the Flames record this season. Last year at this time when the Flames were a good team most of the Kris Russell talk was stuff like "Do you know that Kris Russell has a bull named Red Mile? That is so cool."

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Otto29

Forgive me for my ignorance but why all the hate for Russell? He's a good defenceman who blocks a craptonne of shots. Some nights he has more saves than the goaltender so exactly why the hate. I doubt many of you can even explain your hate for this player.

Can't recover the puck in his own zone. He can't win battles in front of his own net, nor can he win battles along the boards.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Otto29

Forgive me for my ignorance but why all the hate for Russell? He's a good defenceman who blocks a craptonne of shots. Some nights he has more saves than the goaltender so exactly why the hate. I doubt many of you can even explain your hate for this player.

The argument for those who would like to see the Flames move Russell is:

1. His advanced statistics show him to be a far less effective defender than his 'blocked shots' would traditionally indicate
2. That his next contract will be wildly inflated due to the lack of comparable defenders hitting the open market and the general lack of competent defending in the NHL right now.
3. That because of the addiition of Hamilton and the new contract for Giordano, the flames simply cannot afford to pay him what he will be asking for, even if they wanted to.
4. Because of his age and perceived value around the league as well as his pending unrestricted status, he would be a valuable trade chip for a team looking for quality defensive depth to help them push for a cup.

No one is saying Russell is terrible, he's just not as good as some of his numbers might indicate and he's probably more valuable in the long run to the organization by moving him than keeping him.

[sureLoss]

Dreger re-iterating on TSN that the Kings are looking at Russell or Hamhuis now that Byfuglien is off the market.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Otto29

Forgive me for my ignorance but why all the hate for Russell? He's a good defenceman who blocks a craptonne of shots. Some nights he has more saves than the goaltender so exactly why the hate. I doubt many of you can even explain your hate for this player.

Blocking shots is like killing cockroaches-if you do it once or twice, you're alright. If you're doing it all the time, you have a problem.