Would you take the train from Banff to #YYC if rail service were revived?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

If it's diverting funds from actually needed transit expenditures in the city, I'm 100% against it. I might use it once. I can't imagine it will be cheaper than driving and it would obviously be less convenient.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yeah, for me this is the biggest factor. If it was priced as an economical alternative to driving, to reduce traffic in the park, then great. If it's designed as a cash-grab semi-luxury experience for tourists, then no way.

Nice thing about a train, it can be both! Luxury car separate from the plebs.

For stations, I would think you would want a downtown Calgary one, and one somewhere with good parking, preferably in the Car2Go zone.

I wonder if the biggest issue would be convincing CP to give up track space. I would imagine a passenger service would be pretty low on their priority list, and may end up waiting for freight trains to clear often.

[Bigtime]

My dream scenario, a Grand Central type station area in downtown Calgary. With access to:

-All LRT lines (Red, Blue, and Green)
-High Speed Rail Terminal
-Station for the Banff train

I'm pretty sure the city/province already has land aside for a HSR terminal off of either 9th or 10th avenue around 3rd of 4th street. You could at the very least tie in a station for the future North Central/Southeast LRT line (green line). And with this proposed resurrection running along CP tracks they are right next to this land for the Banff train.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I wonder if the biggest issue would be convincing CP to give up track space. I would imagine a passenger service would be pretty low on their priority list, and may end up waiting for freight trains to clear often.

Sounds from this thread like most of CP is on board with it.

Oh, that other 'CP'. Yeah, I wonder what the long-term prospects are of that rail route. I believe right now coal is the most heavily rail-transported commodity in Canada, followed by wheat and then petroleum. And with coal usage expected to fall heavily over the next decade, that could open up some track space, depending on whether any pipelines are built. Are there any restrictions about shipping petroleum products through the national parks?

[Bigtime]

My guess is that CP will say that route is over capacity even now with the downturn in certain commodity items. Plus to make the train to Banff and area as tempting as possible you'd really want to minimize waiting delays, wonder what the cost would be to twin the line?

[Peanut]

I would love to be able to take the train to Banff and lake louise. Would use it for sure.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Upon reflection, doesn't this ONLY work if it's a high-end luxury service?

Basically, it's going to cost, at minimum, about the same as it would to just drive there. It's not like you're going to get a return ticket for $30. In order to get people to pay for the train, it needs to be substantially better than driving there. The service essentially would have to be aimed at making people think, "why would I drive when I can relax on this train service? Sure, it's a bit slower, it's more expensive and I don't have a car when I get there, but X Y and Z more than make up for that."

[polak]

This train is going to be rowdy as hell if it operates overnight. I'm just thinking of all of the times people have tried to organize party trips to banff but they fall apart cause no one wants to stay overnight and you need a lot of people to justify a party bus.

[Jimmy Stang]

I would at least once, mainly for novelty. But I live on the western side of the city, so I can't imagine a scenario where a train is more convenient and more economical for me. By the time I got to the station, parked, boarded, waited for departure, etc. I'd probably be nearly in Banff if I was driving. Build a station just for me near Baker Park, and I'll take the thing 5+ times a year!

For tourists, however, I think it would be fantastic. It would also encourage tourists to see Calgary for a day or two before or after heading to the mountains, whereas currently many just see the airport and Stoney.

As much as I'd like to see it happen, I do wonder about the feasibility. Sharing a very busy line with CP, stations, infrastructure upgrades, etc. will mean that if it ever does go ahead, it probably won't be a cheap ticket.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Upon reflection, doesn't this ONLY work if it's a high-end luxury service?

Basically, it's going to cost, at minimum, about the same as it would to just drive there. It's not like you're going to get a return ticket for $30. In order to get people to pay for the train, it needs to be substantially better than driving there. The service essentially would have to be aimed at making people think, "why would I drive when I can relax on this train service? Sure, it's a bit slower, it's more expensive and I don't have a car when I get there, but X Y and Z more than make up for that."

Not necessarily. With a stop in Canmore and Cochrane, this could also double as a commuter train during rush hour to and from Calgary, and to and from Banff. It's a route that has a great deal of flexibility in terms of usage.

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

My dream scenario, a Grand Central type station area in downtown Calgary. With access to:

-All LRT lines (Red, Blue, and Green)
-High Speed Rail Terminal
-Station for the Banff train

I'm pretty sure the city/province already has land aside for a HSR terminal off of either 9th or 10th avenue around 3rd of 4th street. You could at the very least tie in a station for the future North Central/Southeast LRT line (green line). And with this proposed resurrection running along CP tracks they are right next to this land for the Banff train.

I always thought of the Mewata Armories as an alternative Central Station. The building even looks like the European style central stations, but it doesn't hit the Green line, is awkward for the Red line, and would be tough for access to the high speed rail. Still, that building looks perfect for a Grand Central Station retrofit.

[Kavvy]

Assuming this isn't diverting money from Calgary LRT - lets do it.


-Stop in Canmore (a must), Banff and Louise - future - Jasper / Golden pending on economics of the test?.
-Reduce traffic
-More importantly, the reduced the traffic will be largely from tourists whom are lost or don't know driving conventions. Get out of the left lane!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Table 5]

The beauty of the Rockies/Foothills is perhaps the one truly world-class thing we have in this province. Expanding and improving the experience for visitors and locals (while also decreasing a bit of congestion and pollution) I think is a positive for Alberta.

Calgary > Cochrane > Canmore > Banff > Lake Louise. For your average tourist, that pretty much hits the best parts of Alberta. While i don't think it necessarily has to be a luxury-only experience, I do think it has to be an "experience". I'm not sure what route the CP line takes, but if it's on a more scenic route out to the mountains, (ie, similar to what you get with driving 1A) that would make for an excellent trip.

Perhaps it's something that the Rocky Mountaineer could be a part of as well.

[trew]

I think this is a no-brainer. It could pretty much be its own feasibility study. There is already rail stations in place, and trains that could be used for a pilot.

There are several potential markets for this service and the ability to run multiple classes of service on the same timetables by just adding more cars means that commuter, luxury, and tourist services could all be trialed on the same locomotive.

I bet the only real obstacle to this will be CP and probably the rail unions. They make a lot of money on freight, and the economics and obligation for CP to allow passenger service will be a sticking point.

The Rocky Mountaineer folks will also probably rally against this pretty hard. They've hired a full time lobbyist to try shut down the VIA Canadian route. Can't imagine they would be thrilled to have yet more rail service with mountain scenery available to the marketplace.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by trew

The Rocky Mountaineer folks will also probably rally against this pretty hard. They've hired a full time lobbyist to try shut down the VIA Canadian route. Can't imagine they would be thrilled to have yet more rail service with mountain scenery available to the marketplace.

Considering that they don't have a Calgary to Banff link, I would imagine that they may want to be part of the venture in some fashion. That way they can offer a complete Vancouver to Calgary experience.

[Weitz]

I doubt I would ever use it. I also doubt it would eliminate any sort of tangible vehicle traffic.

[RinkRat]

The cp line through there is one of the more scenic but not really until after Banff, spiral tunnel and all. That being said Hunter Harrison the CEO would fight it tooth and nail.

The only way twinning would occur is on the taxpayers dollar and then all maintenance on the line as well as inspections also on the tax payer.

The speed is 45 mph average, with countless slow orders in affect which take it down to as slow as 10 mph and often, winter has the bad habit of freezing switches not to mention broken rails, as well as cold slow status, further reducing speeds often; especially for non metro passenger service.

Their are also many work stops along the way which block the main line, should anything take longer then planned the commuter will be screwed.

It's a nice idea and all but it's a logistical nightmare with the current state of things at CP. Congestion out of Alyth alone would scare me.

I was a Rail traffic controller for cp rail for several years, until May last year with family still involved, quitting that job was the best decision of my life.

[trew]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Considering that they don't have a Calgary to Banff link, I would imagine that they may want to be part of the venture in some fashion. That way they can offer a complete Vancouver to Calgary experience.

Perhaps. They seem to have a protectionist philosophy, but that might be only because they directly compete against the, government subsidized, VIA Canadian service, and this is less direct a competitive threat. I also don't know what their relationship is with CP and whether they could influence the ownership or existence of luxury service between Calgary and Lake Louise.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

I'd ride it once just to say that I did.

[HockeyIlliterate]

Yes.

As mentioned previously, some private companies (and/or hotels in the area) could handle shuttle services around the various towns.

If you are simply planning to spend a weekend or so in Banff townsite or at Lake Louise, you don't really need a car anyway. The only real "need" for a car is to go up and down 1A, or to see Johnston Canyon, or to do a few off-the-main-road hikes, but, again, a shuttle service could take care of these concerns.

And if you are just going to the ski areas, why do you really need a car anyway? Just hop on the train, then the shuttle bus, ski away until you are totally exhausted, and then come back home. Heck, maybe the train station will offer ski storage, allowing people to just hop on the train after work on Friday and pick up their skis and equipment at the station (thereby avoiding the need to go home at all...).