The ongoing "how would you fix the goaltending" thread

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

So you think Toews and Kane do it themselves in Chicago?

It's just Kopitar and Brown in Los Angeles?

It was just Bergeron and Krejci in Boston?

The flames have basically nothing after Gaudreau/Monahan/Bennett/Brodie/Hamilton. The flames have 12 fulltime roster players with less than 5 goals this season and we're at what, the 55, 56 game mark?

Towes, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, Seabrook. Considering the amount of turnover in the rest of the roster, yes. I would say that the other players are important but not the reason for their success.

Kopitar, Doughty, Muzzin/Voynov, Quick, Carter...again, given turnover elsewhere in the roster and the way different players have stepped up, yes I would say that the rest of the team is fairly changeable.

[dissentowner]

Here are my thoughts and the order I would pursue them. I would also ink Ortio to a 2 way contract if possible.

1. Michal Neuvirth. He is ready imo to be a #1 guy. Has looked excellent in the games I have seen him this year. Need to find a way to pry him out of Philly though.

2. Trade Hiller for Bernier straight up. Bernier has another year left and would give the Flames a chance to see if he can get back the game that most people had him considered as a can't miss starter. As for Reimer I don't see him hitting the market, the Leafs will ink him.

3. Antti Raanta. Has not had his best year this season but his past numbers suggest this guy has great potential and skill. If Neuvirth can't be had I think a combo of Bernier and Raanta would be the best way for the Flames to go.

4. Ben bishop. He is signed for another year but I honestly don't think the Bolts trade him.
It really depends on what happens with Stamkos, if he walks then I can't see the Bolts moving him and it certainly won't be before the deadline. It would be an off season trade.

5. Bring back Ramo. Has been solid at times, he can be a stop gap until the team is ready to contend.

6. Frederik Anderson. My problem with Andersen is I don't see him as all that better than Ramo and to acquire him won't be cheap as it is a trade with a division rival.

[Strange Brew]

I have a soft spot for Ramo so would be OK bringing him back as a 1B type goalie as I do think he can be an average NHL starter. But I don't like him enough to be "the guy" so you need someone else good alongside. And that may mean Ramo is priced too high. IDK maybe him and someone each making $3M would work for next year.

I do believe this: We need a goaltending answer that is long term. Hoping that Gillies will develop into a #1 is fine but no way should we count on that. Way too early to tell.

I don't believe in guys like Ward and Howard that are on a downward curve.

Last year Treliving was supposedly in on Talbot and Jones and that's the kind of player we should be looking at. Not really sure who those are this year. Maybe Andersen is worth looking at.

I would not even consider bringing back Hiller or Ortio. Think I like Poulin better to work with Gillies in the AHL.

It's funny. Making the Hamilton trade last summer pretty much killed the chances of getting Talbot or Jones. I was pretty happy with that at the time. But maybe getting a goalie would have been more important for this team.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

YOu spot them seasons until they actually have a roster decent enough where you can expect playoff success.

Just look at last night's game:

- Calgary got pushed around all night
- Calgary's top line was on fire and the team still lost
- Calgary's goaltending was only marginally worse than Anaheims
- 3 Blown leads.

These are all symptoms of being a bad team. If you are getting pushed around all night, you aren't dictating the play as much as you might think you are. If your top line is on fire and you still can't win, it means you have no secondary scoring (and are thus a bad team).You should win a game where you score 4 goals, even if 3 of Hiller's were awful, the team still allowed 3 more. If you're blowing multiple leads in a game, it's a sign you can't play any style other than loose. Good teams can 'lock it down', the Flames are gunning it whether they are winning or losing.

If you expected this team to be a playoff team this year or next, your expectations are simply too high.

The top line is good, the rest of the team needs a lot of work.

I was going to just roll my eyes and scroll past your post, but felt I had to chime in because honestly sometimes I feel like I'm watching a completely different game than posters like you.

- Flames outshot the Ducks by a wide margin.
- Flames had more high danger scoring chances than the Ducks, at even strength and otherwise.
- Flames outhit the Ducks at even strength. And they did not get pushed around.
- Flames had better shot attempt differential metrics.
- Flames second line played well, had a number of chances. They've been good over the past 5 games.
- Eye test it was pretty evenly matched game, I'd give a slight edge to the Flames in all-around play.

There was one difference in this game and it was goaltending. The Flames was atrocious.

[Locke]

Is this an option?

[gvitaly]

I would try to bring Matt Murray from Pit. I am pretty sure he would cost an arm and a leg though. He is going to be a very good goalie in the NHL and he just needs the opportunity. Perhaps for Hudler/Russell and one of our top prospects(one of the Swedes?).

[Otto-matic]

If Ortio strings together a few more bad games, do you send him down and give Poulin a shot? That would probably spell the end of Joni's tenure with the Flames.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I would try to bring Matt Murray from Pit. I am pretty sure he would cost an arm and a leg though. He is going to be a very good goalie in the NHL and he just needs the opportunity. Perhaps for Hudler/Russell and one of our top prospects(one of the Swedes?).

Interesting. Never heard of him until now. His AHL numbers over the last few years are pretty good, but he has some unremarkable numbers before that. I would need something more than numbers to determine if he was worth giving up something for.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by heep223

I was going to just roll my eyes and scroll past your post, but felt I had to chime in because honestly sometimes I feel like I'm watching a completely different game than posters like you.

- Flames outshot the Ducks by a wide margin.
- Flames had more high danger scoring chances than the Ducks, at even strength and otherwise.
- Flames outhit the Ducks at even strength. And they did not get pushed around.
- Flames had better shot attempt differential metrics.
- Flames second line played well, had a number of chances. They've been good over the past 5 games.
- Eye test it was pretty evenly matched game, I'd give a slight edge to the Flames in all-around play.

There was one difference in this game and it was goaltending. The Flames was atrocious.

Maybe you're right.

But it was also just one game. Over the course of the season this team has lost a lot more games due to getting outplayed than due to goaltending. Goaltending has lost them some games but how much more than other teams with average goaltending? Even a game like Game 4 (@Jets), it's easy to blame Ramo for the soft game winner, but did the Flames generate any offense? They scored 1 goal.

"Fixing" goaltending might serve as gauze, but isn't a long term solution. Even adding Carey Price or Brayden Holtby to this roster doesn't make it a legitimate contender.

The Flames probably did outplay the Ducks overall, slightly last game, but did not play a mistake free game and certainly not a dominant game. The other two times they played the Ducks though? Listless.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Maybe you're right.

But it was also just one game. Over the course of the season this team has lost a lot more games due to getting outplayed than due to goaltending. Goaltending has lost them some games but how much more than other teams with average goaltending? Even a game like Game 4 (@Jets), it's easy to blame Ramo for the soft game winner, but did the Flames generate any offense? They scored 1 goal.

"Fixing" goaltending might serve as gauze, but isn't a long term solution. Even adding Carey Price or Brayden Holtby to this roster doesn't make it a legitimate contender.

The Flames probably did outplay the Ducks overall, slightly last game, but did not play a mistake free game and certainly not a dominant game. The other two times they played the Ducks though? Listless.

Hiller has the worst save percentage in the league.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Interesting. Never heard of him until now. His AHL numbers over the last few years are pretty good, but he has some unremarkable numbers before that. I would need something more than numbers to determine if he was worth giving up something for.

5. MATT MURRAY
At first glance, he doesn’t look like he’s an extremely large goalie – but standing 6-foot-4, Murray covers a lot more net than shooters expect. He’s technically sound, seals the ice well, and doesn’t allow the game to speed up around him. He does resort to a type of blocking mindset at times, and had to be bailed out by a strong Wilkes-Barre/Scranton team in front of him on some nights.

http://ingoalmag.com/features/top-50...5-2016-season/

[hockey.modern]

Sounds like another Bishop/Hiller-esque goalie.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by heep223

I was going to just roll my eyes and scroll past your post, but felt I had to chime in because honestly sometimes I feel like I'm watching a completely different game than posters like you.

- Flames outshot the Ducks by a wide margin.
- Flames had more high danger scoring chances than the Ducks, at even strength and otherwise.
- Flames outhit the Ducks at even strength. And they did not get pushed around.
- Flames had better shot attempt differential metrics.
- Flames second line played well, had a number of chances. They've been good over the past 5 games.
- Eye test it was pretty evenly matched game, I'd give a slight edge to the Flames in all-around play.

There was one difference in this game and it was goaltending. The Flames was atrocious.

Agreed. I was at the game and made a point of watching the Flames' players away from the puck. The skaters didn't play that bad. Giveaways weren't bad except for a couple. This loss is 100% on the goaltending. I could see the bench deflating after each goal. The team was excited and jacked up after they came within one in the dying seconds of the 2nd period. Then that Goal by the Ducks a minute into the 3rd reallly broke the team's back.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Interesting. Never heard of him until now. His AHL numbers over the last few years are pretty good, but he has some unremarkable numbers before that. I would need something more than numbers to determine if he was worth giving up something for.

Very, very good goalie prospect that doesn't get a lot of attention for some reason.

When looking at his stats, keep in mind that he's only 21 years old. His numbers are good no matter who you're talking about, but to put up a season like he did at age 20 is absolutely ridiculous.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Interesting. Never heard of him until now. His AHL numbers over the last few years are pretty good, but he has some unremarkable numbers before that. I would need something more than numbers to determine if he was worth giving up something for.

That's in large part because he is only 21. He is big, quick, and pretty much unbeatable down low. He does give out the odd rebounds from time to time but he has time to work on it.

[Jason14h]

I would look at Columbus.

They have Bobrovsky for 3 more years at 7.5

Option 1: Give then Raymond for Bobrovsky and 1.5 million retained
Option 2 : See how much they will retain to get rid of him. Maybe 2.5 million so we get for 5 million.
Option 3: If they are going to keep him see what they want for their other goaltender assets.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by jason14h

i would look at columbus.

They have bobrovsky for 3 more years at 7.5

option 1: Give then raymond for bobrovsky and 1.5 million retained
option 2 : See how much they will retain to get rid of him. Maybe 2.5 million so we get for 5 million.
Option 3: If they are going to keep him see what they want for their other goaltender assets.

baaaa hahahahahaha

[Gaudfather]

Trade Hiller ( if you can), do not re-sign Ramo, do not re-sign Ortio. Burn it to the ground and start again.

If I was Tre, I would focus on trying to get Elliott out of St. Louis and then hope Gilles comes back from surgery better than ever.

[Split98]

[CSharp]

If you can't trade Hiller by end of trade deadline, let the team roll with Hiller and see what'll pan out during the offseason. I think Ramo is fine for the team rebuild process. The team doesn't really need a top notch goalie to mask the effects of any defensive deficiencies like what Kipper did. With a good team rebuild, you want every single deficiency exposed and plug up the big holes first. Right now, the Flames have big holes defensively and not enough depth up front to win against the big and fast west coast teams in the south and teams like the Coyotes and even the Jets. Goaltending is the last of their worries.