2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors v2

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's really hard to let go of iconic players. We all saw that with Iginla, but the Canucks are going through that with 2 marquee players. Hopefully they make the same mistake we did and it hurts twice as bad.

They're also going to be almost impossible to move because they're a package deal signed for $7 million a piece.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I think that's one way to doing it. Look at Vancouver, they have Baertschi, Virtanen and Horvat developing at the NHL level while having "over-the-hill" Sedins and Vrbrata hold the fans over who desire a competitive hockey club. It's rebuild on the fly vs. scorched earth. I think a rebuild is very much justified on what parts you have to build from.

I think to say there's only one way to rebuild a franchises core assets is naïve or arrogant.

There's not only one way. But I think Vancouver would be best served trading some of their best players for more picks/prospects and then drafting higher to get a franchise player.

If you're rebuilding on the fly and not drafting top 5 you'd better have some of the best scouting in the league because it's really hard to find franchise players outside of that top 5. Detroit makes it work because of amazing scouting.

I think the scorched earth policy of getting rid of all your good vets (EDM route) is dangerous because your players can get bad habits, lose confidence, develop poorly on a crappy team. Hard to develop defenders when they are scared to make a mistake because your goalie can't make saves. Hard to develop goalies when your defense is so terrible that they are giving up prime opportunities all the time.

BUF's rebuild is going way better than EDM's because they did the scorched earth for one year while accumulating a ton of assets heading into that year (I think they drafted twice in the first round in three straight drafts IIRC.) They had their one horrible, horrible year where the reward is a franchise player (Eichel) but after accumulating a ton of young assets they manage to turn some of them into players who can play now (Kane, O'Reilly, Bogosian) to compliment their young core. EDM has never done that because they are worse at drafting and haven't had the balls to deal one of their young kids to solve some holes on the team.

CGY's rebuild is a bit middle of the road cause we've never had a horrible, horrible year. We traded off Iginla and Bouwmeester and managed to get Monahan in a deep draft. Then we have the one pretty unlucky year where we were lucky to draft top 4 and get a potential franchise player in Bennett. Some good scouting got us Gaudreau/Brodie in the 4th round. IMO if we can land a top 5-7 prospect this year we're most of the way to having the key core pieces to build a contender because I think we might get another 1st line/1st pairing guy this draft. Then this offseason I'd expect us to make a trade where we move some picks/prospects/young players for guys heading into their prime or in their prime similar to how BUF acquired Kane/O'Reilly.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Anduril

Yeah, I'd say that most people would look at the Sharo/Saad departure as strictly cap victims instead of rebuilding since the rebuilding term indicates a change in the foundation IMO.

Perhaps. But Atlanta/Winnipeg have literally built their franchise around Chicagos cap victims. I think Chicago had "building" blocks they needed to legitimately analyze as to whether or not they should build around or trade for other forms of building blocks.

Here's another way to look at it. Imagine a franchise with the following players:

Byfuglien, Ladd, Niemi, Sharp, Saad, Frolik, Bolland, Versteeg, Oduya, Leddy, Stalberg, Kopecky and Campbell. I think a franchise with all those players could be a playoff team.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Perhaps. But Atlanta/Winnipeg have literally built their franchise around Chicagos cap victims. I think Chicago had "building" blocks they needed to legitimately analyze as to whether or not they should build around or trade for other forms of building blocks.

Here's another way to look at it. Imagine a franchise with the following players:

Byfuglien, Ladd, Niemi, Sharp, Saad, Frolik, Bolland, Versteeg, Oduya, Leddy, Stalberg, Kopecky and Campbell. I think a franchise with all those players could be a playoff team.

And where is the team now? Still wallowing in mediocrity despite having better pieces on top of many of the included above. A team consisting of all those complimentary players would not be a playoff team, much less better than Winnipeg is right now. Missing a top pairing, top line centre and another top 6 forward.

Chicago has continued to insulate the core with great drafts and UFA signings, being able to keep up the overall team quality despite the natural revolving door of supporting cast members. Much different than changing out core building blocks.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Anduril

And where is the team now? Still wallowing in mediocrity despite having better pieces on top of many of the included above. A team consisting of all those complimentary players would not be a playoff team, much less better than Winnipeg is right now. Missing a top pairing, top line centre and another top 6 forward.

Chicago has continued to insulate the core with great drafts and UFA signings, being able to keep up the overall team quality despite the natural revolving door of supporting cast members. Much different than changing out core building blocks.

I don't necessarily agree. I think Winnipeg is a pretty well built team that hasn't put it all together. They're big, they're mean, and they have talent. If hate to face them in the playoffs. But unfortunately their coaching and depth has left something to be desired. They're also a small market franchise that's been struggling to spend to the cap

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I don't necessarily agree. I think Winnipeg is a pretty well built team that hasn't put it all together. They're big, they're mean, and they have talent. If hate to face them in the playoffs. But unfortunately their coaching and depth has left something to be desired. They're also a small market franchise that's been struggling to spend to the cap

That's fair, Imw not giving enough credit to the actual core of the team (Little, Wheeler, Ehlers, Trouba, Myers, etc) if the team was supplemented by the rest of the ex Chicago members then they'd be a much scarier team on paper with that extra depth. I still don't think majority of those ex Chicago players are more than depth.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Perhaps. But Atlanta/Winnipeg have literally built their franchise around Chicagos cap victims. I think Chicago had "building" blocks they needed to legitimately analyze as to whether or not they should build around or trade for other forms of building blocks.

Here's another way to look at it. Imagine a franchise with the following players:

Byfuglien, Ladd, Niemi, Sharp, Saad, Frolik, Bolland, Versteeg, Oduya, Leddy, Stalberg, Kopecky and Campbell. I think a franchise with all those players could be a playoff team.

That's a team with terrible depth up front, decent defense, and okay goaltending. Not a playoff team.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

The only team in the league that seems to be able to retool on the fly time and time and time again is Detroit. Its amazing. They never liquidate their Core Veterans or get top ten picks and yet are always competitive.

Chicago is another one that seems to be retooling on the fly. But Detroit for sure without the picks.

[Chingas]

First off I realise I am guilty of what I am about to say by posting this without any rumours. However I think that this thread might be best renamed "Discussion of teams past and current wants, needs, trade successes and failures". Then we can continue this all encompassing thread which definitley has some interseting discussion.

Additionally a new thread that is kept strictly for trade rumours and valid speculation might be best. I think that a lot of the good "news" type info is lost in the mass of discussions in here.

My 2 cents.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Chingas

First off I realise I am guilty of what I am about to say by posting this without any rumours. However I think that this thread might be best renamed "Discussion of teams past and current wants, needs, trade successes and failures". Then we can continue this all encompassing thread which definitley has some interseting discussion.

Additionally a new thread that is kept strictly for trade rumours and valid speculation might be best. I think that a lot of the good "news" type info is lost in the mass of discussions in here.

My 2 cents.

That makes little sense in the scope of this forum. This thread is used to discuss potential trades or rumours. However, when significant news does pop up, we create another thread about it. If the Lightning traded Kucherov to Philadelphia tomorrow, we'd create a whole new thread about it - we wouldn't just stick it among the discussion in here.

[DomeFoam]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Chicago is another one that seems to be retooling on the fly. But Detroit for sure without the picks.

And its only happened once again in a huge way with future superstar Dylan Larkin falling in their laps at PICK 15. I don't know what drug gives those scouts their foresight powers but i want some. Any anxiety about replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the future is gone.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

That makes little sense in the scope of this forum. This thread is used to discuss potential trades or rumours. However, when significant news does pop up, we create another thread about it. If the Lightning traded Kucherov to Philadelphia tomorrow, we'd create a whole new thread about it - we wouldn't just stick it among the discussion in here.

That would then become a trade thread.

Hypothetically if Freidman tweeted that Philly was in discussions to land Kucherov it would be posted here. It would then be potentially lost in the circle of discussions, or would within ten posts dive completely off topic into past terrible trades by Philly or something of that ilk.

Just my observation.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Chingas

That would then become a trade thread.

Hypothetically if Freidman tweeted that Philly was in discussions to land Kucherov it would be posted here. It would then be potentially lost in the circle of discussions, or would within ten posts dive completely off topic into past terrible trades by Philly or something of that ilk.

Just my observation.

I think you're seriously underestimating the knowledge of this forum. We're not monkeys behind keyboards, you know. Friedman tweets that Philly is in discussions to grab Kucherov, and I'm sure it wouldn't be lost in the 'circle of discussions', as you put it. a) this thread doesn't move that fast, and b) people are typically pretty aware of news, especially when it's posted by someone like sureLoss.

And yeah - if Kucherov was traded to Philly, there'd be a trade thread about it. Not sure why that's a contentious issue.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think you're seriously underestimating the knowledge of this forum. We're not monkeys behind keyboards, you know. Friedman tweets that Philly is in discussions to grab Kucherov, and I'm sure it wouldn't be lost in the 'circle of discussions', as you put it. a) this thread doesn't move that fast, and b) people are typically pretty aware of news, especially when it's posted by someone like sureLoss.

And yeah - if Kucherov was traded to Philly, there'd be a trade thread about it. Not sure why that's a contentious issue.

There is no contention regarding starting a trade thread. I don't think you and I will agree here. I am afraid that I am falling down the rabbit hole a bit here and don't want to continue to add filler, so this will be my last post on the matter.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by DomeFoam

And its only happened once again in a huge way with future superstar Dylan Larkin falling in their laps at PICK 15. I don't know what drug gives those scouts their foresight powers but i want some. Any anxiety about replacing Datsyuk and Zetterberg in the future is gone.

Larkin is a puck hog. Needs to pass more. Never the less it is disgusting how Detroit keeps doing this. I am sure the kid will learn to with the players there.

Says a lot being so young and playing for a team who never plays young guys at an NHL level until they develop after 3 or 4 years in the minors.

I envy Detroit fans. Amazing management and coaching for decades.
How can a Detroit fan ever be unhappy? Sure they could use more cups, yet they are in the mix for a run in the playoffs every year.

Do they have any superstars? Most of the league does not think so. Yet they have a bunch. Dat and Zet are amazing players. They play a complete game.

A team I am terrified of if we trade Backlund to. No better mentors! Even Wideman would lite it up there.

Its Detroit, they can do no wrong!

[The Original FFIV]

Linden Vey no longer on Canucks roster as per website. Have to wonder if he was being showcased which is perhaps reason why he was getting lots of ice time on Saturday night and driving the broadcast team crazy. Canucks need D and could see them moving him for someone like ehrhoff which would give la cap savings as veys salary is almost all buried if he is assigned to ahl.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I think you're seriously underestimating the knowledge of this forum. We're not monkeys behind keyboards, you know. Friedman tweets that Philly is in discussions to grab Kucherov, and I'm sure it wouldn't be lost in the 'circle of discussions', as you put it. a) this thread doesn't move that fast, and b) people are typically pretty aware of news, especially when it's posted by someone like sureLoss.

And yeah - if Kucherov was traded to Philly, there'd be a trade thread about it. Not sure why that's a contentious issue.

Yeh it really isn't that big of a deal, and I think you are not going to please everyone, if it was to change to how some others are suggesting then we're going to have other people annoyed that it changed. Just a lose-lose. honestly I don't have a problem with these bigger threads it's not a huge deal and usually if there's something new I have to go back like 1 or 2 pages.

I'm curious to see if things heat up for rumors and such with Calgary, I haven't seen much but it seems that BT keeps a lot of the noteworthy stuff behind closed doors.

[flamesfan55]

Whoa ... #Flames D Kris Russell listed as a scratch. Ditto for RW David Jones, C Matt Stajan.

Per Wes gilbertson

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by flamesfan55

Whoa ... #Flames D Kris Russell listed as a scratch. Ditto for RW David Jones, C Matt Stajan.

Per Wes gilbertson

So it begins!

Man I hope we move 3/4 roster guts for picks then give some AHL guys a go!

[MarkGio]

With the cap crunch it's likely sellers will need to hold onto their players right up until the deadline, in order to eat as much salary as possible before unloading.

I don't expect any players to be moved beforehand except maybe Russell due to his low salary