McKenzie: Is there any doubt Russell would at least get 5 yrs x $5.5 million as UFA?

[schmaaadm]

Long time lurker, maybe 4th? time posting. Just thought I'd add my 2 cents haha
I was pretty pumped when we got Russell. Good hardworking local guy. But I've really flip flopped back and forth all year about re-signing him.
Lately I've been watching him more closely and I feel that you have to bring him back. Not at 5.5 obviously, but he passes my eye test with flying colors. (Like that means anything haha) He's on the smaller side sure, but plays like a big guy. He fights hard in the corners. Doesn't back down from anyone. Is obviously a leader in the room. He is a smart hockey player (prone to blunders, as anyone is). I mean, he's great for what he is- a #4 defense man. Not to mention he fits our system so well.
I feel like because gio and Brodie are so, so good, and play with top 2 lines more, they generate more offense. Brodie and gio playing our system where the d is so active, IMO, really covers up the flaws in our offense. I really don't think the defense is our problem this year and we should do what we can to keep Russell.
Hartley may be losing the room, but he's not stupid. To lean so heavily on a player in all situations like he does with Russell tells you something. Although I would prefer not to give him more than 4mil a year, and If he signs here it will be around 4 years @ 4mil. I also see him as the guy that would take that ' hometown discount'. I get the impression he really wants to stay, good ol farm kid playing with pride in his home province. You could even give him more term 4,5,6 years to knock it down to 3 or 3.5mil - ya might be a stretch. But if he's gonna go for 5.5 mil as a free agent Im sure Brad can get a decent return for him.

[AC]

I'm a big fan of Russell, but I would trade him for sure.

I'd also look into bringing him back come July 1st but only for a cheaper contract. $3.5M for example.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by AC

I'm a big fan of Russell, but I would trade him for sure.

I'd also look into bringing him back come July 1st but only for a cheaper contract. $3.5M for example.

He'd be a guy I'd wait until after the frenzy is over and you can probably get him back for what you want to pay. Although I'd rather him gone as I don't think Hartley will bump him down the depth chart as long as he's here.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

He'd be a guy I'd wait until after the frenzy is over and you can probably get him back for what you want to pay. Although I'd rather him gone as I don't think Hartley will bump him down the depth chart as long as he's here.

Why do people think Hartley has some love affair with Russell because he plays him top 4? If he had better defensemen, he would play them.

Russell is pretty clearly the 4th best D on this team. I don't think that's arguable in any way. So he plays top 4 minutes.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Why do people think Hartley has some love affair with Russell because he plays him top 4? If he had better defensemen, he would play them.

Russell is pretty clearly the 4th best D on this team. I don't think that's arguable in any way. So he plays top 4 minutes.

He plays 3 more minutes per game than Hamilton.

He has more even strength time on ice than Giordano.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/team...l#stats_toi::6

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

He plays 3 more minutes per game than Hamilton.

He has more even strength time on ice than Giordano.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/team...l#stats_toi::6

Hamilton has been here 4 months, and has made poorer decisions than Russell. He's a kid. He'll get to 25 minutes a night, but this is not Dougie Hamilton's year.

It also stands to reason Russell would play more than Gio at even strength. he is as good match against most bottom six players - with top forwards typically playing ~20 minutes a night anyway, I would expect Hartley to deploy the captain against them. Throw in special teams and you're pushing 23-25 minutes a night.

If the Flames had an actual 3rd pairing, Kris Russell would play less. And if the Flames had four D better, he'd be on the 3rd pair where he belongs. But they only have three

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Hamilton has been here 4 months, and has made poorer decisions than Russell. He's a kid. He'll get to 25 minutes a night, but this is not Dougie Hamilton's year.

It also stands to reason Russell would play more than Gio at even strength. he is as good match against most bottom six players - with top forwards typically playing ~20 minutes a night anyway, I would expect Hartley to deploy the captain against them. Throw in special teams and you're pushing 23-25 minutes a night.

If the Flames had an actual 3rd pairing, Kris Russell would play less. And if the Flames had four D better, he'd be on the 3rd pair where he belongs. But they only have three

No. Just no. Russell makes the worst decisions of any of the Flames defensemen, and that says something with Wideman on the team. Russell just continues to make dumb play after dumb play in his own zone, leading to giveaways and situations where he has to block a shot to make up for his stupidity. Hartley loves him some Russell, because Russell is willing to sacrifice his body to prevent a scoring opportunity. Sadly, there would be less scoring opportunities if Russell would pull his head out of his hockey pants and make the smart play rather that the predictable play. Not a smart player and not a good defenseman.

[Matty81]

Originally Posted by AC

I'm a big fan of Russell, but I would trade him for sure.

I'd also look into bringing him back come July 1st but only for a cheaper contract. $3.5M for example.

This. Not even a question that he should be traded right now but if he wants to re-sign with the Flames and the price fits, bring him back at free agency. If someone gives him more than 4... good for Kris I say and the Flames should avoid that anchor. If they can get him back for 3.5, good for the Flames.

Win win if he comes back, he gets a playoff run, Flames get another asset or two. There's no question for a team in the Flames situation that the cap space and extra prospects or picks are more valuable than Russell for 3 months though and he has to be moved without a doubt.

Then if he does come back, going forward he would be great to shelter the young guys coming and move to the 3rd pairing when it's time for the right price. For all the flak he takes, he is still much better than anybody else on the blueline outside of Gio, Brodie and Hamilton. With Smid, Engelland and Wideman all coming off the payroll next, fits a need. If not him, they'll need to find another LHD who can play in the second pair.

[Caged Great]

I'd be fine with bringing both Russell and Hudler back on July 1st. You pretty much need to trade them though to get added assets.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by New Era

No. Just no. Russell makes the worst decisions of any of the Flames defensemen, and that says something with Wideman on the team. Russell just continues to make dumb play after dumb play in his own zone, leading to giveaways and situations where he has to block a shot to make up for his stupidity. Hartley loves him some Russell, because Russell is willing to sacrifice his body to prevent a scoring opportunity. Sadly, there would be less scoring opportunities if Russell would pull his head out of his hockey pants and make the smart play rather that the predictable play. Not a smart player and not a good defenseman.

Paging this post is terrible.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Paging this post is terrible.

Disagreeing with a post does not make it a bad post.

[saillias]

He points out trolling and such that brings down the quality of the board. Not hockey opinions you don't like

[BlackWallStreet]

Trade wideman and sign Russell

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by BlackWallStreet

Trade wideman and sign Russell

Easier said than done. that is the only way I would re-sign Russel is if they were to trade one of Wideman, Smid or Engelland

[flamesfever]

I believe our defense would be considerably weaker without Russell. His smart, shifty moves more than compensates for his size. As the top shot blocker in the league, I believe he allows us to win many more games than we wouldn't otherwise win, considering our less than stellar goal tending.

He is young enough to still have many more years in the league, and I think at $4 million for 4 years, we could not go wrong.

[Psytic]

I don't dislike Russell but I just dont see the value in him over 4 million. If we can trade him and resign him at 3rd pairing dolllars that's great but I really can't see paying him over 4.5 max.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I don't dislike Russell but I just dont see the value in him over 4 million. If we can trade him and resign him at 3rd pairing dolllars that's great but I really can't see paying him over 4.5 max.

WAAAAYYYYY too much.

Our first pair is good. The rest are entirely interchangable pieces who can be replaced for way less than $4.5 million.

[Mister Yamoto]

Maybe having 7 D making over 3.5 isn't the best way to build a team after all.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Maybe having 7 D making over 3.5 isn't the best way to build a team after all.

it's a good thing that only 4 make over 3.5 then

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

it's a good thing that only 4 make over 3.5 then

and yet the Flames lead the league in cap spent on d-men.... this year and are adding another 3M year when Gio's contract kicks in.

for next year just Gio Hamilton and Brodie add up to 17.15 M.

The median of positional spending on defense this year is around 17M.

The average NHL team spends 27% of their cap on defense. on a 72 M cap that comes to 19M.

To get to anywhere near normal on cap distribution the Flames need to get rid of Wideman, Russell, Smid and Engelland and replace them with 4 guys making close to the league minimum.

This is very similar to the situation the Flames were in when they had Phanuef Bouwmeester and Regehr and Sarich. It took a run of 5 years with no playoffs spending to the cap with 2 HOF players in their prime to get out of that sorry situation.